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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=110052115-18102007>I think this
(below in <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>red</STRONG></FONT>) has been what we
(FAI and Masters guys at the contest) had been discussing all weekend.
There are rounds when I'm not on my game and these guys are. Unfortunately
sometimes they are not rewarded for their flying when they fly
well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=110052115-18102007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=110052115-18102007>As per Ryan's
post:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=110052115-18102007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=110052115-18102007>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>1. Sacrifice one FAI round per contest to
serve as an "open" round for all contestants expected to judge FAI during the
event. Allow everyone to compare notes and use this as a coaching
opportunity.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Sounds
promising and educational at the cost of maybe a little bit of time depending on
how the flight lines are run.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>2. Drop one FAI pilot to Masters at each
contest to serve as a judge for all rounds and use volunteers from other classes
to serve as the others. This would have to be an agreement made among FAI
pilots.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>If by drop he
means not flying in the contest and being a dedicated judge, sounds
fine.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>3. Extend the pilots meeting to go over
specific issues, maybe a new one or two every meet rather than just pointing out
the landing zone, etc. Make a "mini" judging seminar mandatory each
contest.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>This could
also be done while flying is going on. Might have to repeat for others that have
missed parts, but if they're interested, repeat away.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff>4. Certify judges for FAI on a
volunteer basis and only use "certified" judges in the contest.
</FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Somehow I'm
not sure this will happen, but sounds good if you can find enough dedicated
judges.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>5. Utilize peer judging, in other words,
have FAI pilots judge themselves. If a pilot is not flying, he is judging
his fellow competitors.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>hehehehehe,
the Masters guys are reading this and they are all in
favor...lol.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></SPAN></FONT><SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Mike H, does Melissa still have the scores from this weekend? If
so, could she pull each judges final scores, like Jim suggested in #1, as a
final score and see if anything changes? 12 rounds of normalized
scores. That sounds pretty interesting as well. And we, FAI pilots here in
D3, aren't out for anyone's head, we are just trying to help improve pattern
judging. "Evil incompetent"? Please. Remember, you had Ryan and I with-in 1
point on that first round of P! We, as a District, have made far too many
strides in becoming one of the most fun Districts (and best if I dare
say...lol) around. I, like these guys, just want to make sure that we continue
in these ways.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Mark
Atwood<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:11 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 Championship -
Scoring System Overhaul<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">George and I
spent some considerable email on this in the past, but aren’t we confusing the
statistical relevance of saying “Pilot A is better than Pilot B” (which
clearly there is not enough math to support) vs “Pilot A was scored better
than Pilot B today in round 1”?? <BR><BR>The quality of the
score...is a completely independent issue from whether or not the score itself
is valid. My ability to judge the same maneuver as an 7 every time is
one component (and a challenging one to say the least), not to mention whether
or not the “7” is the correct score. But the math that says
that 7,7,7,7,7 loses to 7,7,8,7,7 is pretty sound. <FONT color=#ff0000
size=3><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Is the second guy a better flyer?</FONT>
<FONT color=#000000 size=2>Statistically no...they’re
equal.</FONT><STRONG> But in that round he scored
better.</STRONG></FONT> Period. At the end of the day, this is a
subjective sport. Our objective guidelines are there to help with
consistency, but bottom line, presentation IS part of the program...so by
definition, the guy I (the judge) think won...won. <BR><BR>Maybe
we need to do some google-ing on Olympic scoring...clearly they have the same
issue with a LOT more people watching....<BR><BR>That said...I’m all in favor
of reviewing everything Jim has brought to the table.
<BR><BR>-Mark<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">
<DIV><BR>> ---- "Woodward wrote: <BR>> > Guys - <BR>> >
<BR>> > 1. Why do we average judge's scores together? <BR>> >
<BR>> > <STRONG>b. Why not just let each judge's score stand as!
is</STRONG>, <SPAN class=110052115-18102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=3> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><B>> > unaltered, and produce two normalized scores per round?
<BR>> > d. You would basically have two sets of scores per round.
<BR>> > IE you may end up with 1000 points on one card, and an 800
on the other. <BR><BR></DIV></B></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN
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