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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bob</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Agree with your examples and agree with your
view regarding the judges having the same perspective as the pilot.
However, I feel that a problem arises when the rules require a
downgrade for flying beyond 175m and a severe downgrade for flying beyond
200m. It's the responsibility of the pilot to train to fly within
that range, unfortunately the skill of the judge at determining excess distance
varies quite a bit. A good maneuver performed at 250m (not uncommon) is often
not downgraded the required 2 or so points and scores well by some judges, but
not by others who apply the appropriate downgrade. Of course the
converse occurs, a maneuver at 170m is incorrectly downgraded as
being too far. These variances can result in large differences between judges.
While we're probably not ready for GPS scoring, making difficult judgments of
distance accurate in some way would seem to be a positive step toward accurate
scoring.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 17, 2007 1:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In theory, using GPS to judge flight path, or even just box violations,
sounds like a good idea. I, however, am very much opposed to it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The reason the judges are positioned close to the pilot is so they will
see, as much as possible, the same thing the pilot sees. IMHO we should
not try to judge something the pilot has no chance of seeing. If the
plane drifts in or out slightly while doing a point roll, the pilot is not
likely to see it and neither are the judges. That is the way it should
be.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At the next pattern contest, walk out to the 150m mark, outside the box
looking in, and see how bad the flight path drifts for most pilots. Rolls that
look fine from the pilot and judge perspective may look horrible when viewed
from the end. Then try telling a pilot he was downgraded for defects that he
has little chance of seeing from his perspective.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ever watch full-scale aerobatics? Vertical lines that drift, changes in
radius, etc. From a pattern pilots viewpoint, they could do a lot better. But,
the pilot can't see drift during vertical lines. They can't tell the radius is
changing. That is why the full-scale judges don't have that as part of their
criteria. They judge the attitude of the airplane, and the rate-of-change of
the heading during looping segments (someone correct me if I am wrong). Again,
don't try to downgrade a pilot for something he can't see from his
perspective.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>M2CW.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Anthony Romano <anthonyr105@hotmail.com></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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The new Eagle tree does collect GPS data. Has anyone played with one
yet?<BR> <BR>Anthony<BR><BR><BR>
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From: ejhaury@comcast.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date:
Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:25:54 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Some thoughts that might help unburden judges and
improve accuracy. These are outside the box a bit - process box, not
flight box. As some have mentioned, replacing human judges with some form
of computer scoring system is the ultimate answer. I hope I live long
enough to see that work, not that it's impossible now - just no one with
the interest / skills / finances has approached it. Much time has been
spent discussing ways to transfer the score from the judges mind to paper
- but, guess what, a pencil and paper works just fine! (It's not even too
hard to process scores with a calculator!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>F3A rules preclude the use of means to define box
violations other than the judge's observation. Various wording in both AMA
& F3A rules have prohibited judging "aids". This seems contradictory
to the purpose! A pilot is supposed to demonstrate skill in flying an
aircraft within the constraints of the box with perfection being the goal
- while being judged by a bunch of ill-positioned folks who vary in being
able to determine distance +- 50 meters? In the days of interrogated
circuits, dual conversation RX, and giggle Hertz freq we still choose to
rely on guesstimates for distance! Nonsense. Very little effort would be
required to provide accurate excessive distance and box excursion
information. Take this burden from the judge and apply any distance / box
downgrades post flight. Sure - I don't know just what these machines are
at the moment (could be just properly placed people in major meets) - but
asking the question may get somebody thinking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If the pilot is expected to display perfection in
flight - we should move into the 21st century in devising ways of
accurately judging whether or not that perfection is present. Of course it
might cost some of us judges a job - darn, I would hate to lose the
income!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
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