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<DIV>Yes !!</DIV>
<DIV>Ron Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV>(PS - you could substitute a hot air balloon as place where RC pilot is standing for the aircraft carrier, and have same situation)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <vanputte@cox.net> <BR><BR>> The best analysis of the effects of a steady wind was published by a South <BR>> African named Len Salter 25-30 years ago. He wrote that all you need to <BR>> understand what's really going on is an aircraft carrier steaming downwind at <BR>> the same speed as the wind. You stand on the carrier's deck and there's NO <BR>> wind. You fly your airplane and it flies just as it would on a calm day. You <BR>> loops are nice and round and you get perfect verticals by pointing the airplane <BR>> straight up or down. There's no dreaded "downwind turn" problem. <BR>> <BR>> Now suppose you were instantaneously teleported to an adjacent island. Your <BR>> airplane would have no clue that you weren't still on the carrier's deck, but <BR>> I'll bet your airplane would "fly dfferently". <BR>> <BR>> Ron <BR>> <BR>> ---- Mark Atwood <ATWOODM@PARAGON-INC.COM>w
rote: <BR>> > George, <BR>> > <BR>> > I think Ron¹s point is that the ³moving pool² IS the same...except the <BR>> water <BR>> > is not moving relative to the pool. The water is moving just as fast if the <BR>> > giant (I can¹t believe you guys have sucked me into this conversation or <BR>> > worse, this analogy) was running down the street with the pool, as it would <BR>> > be if there was a river..it¹s just that the walls of the pool are moving <BR>> > with it. <BR>> > <BR>> > If the pool was SO big, that there was no frame of reference...the water <BR>> > could be flowing at any speed and you would never know...(until you finally <BR>> > got close to a side :) <BR>> > <BR>> > -M <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > On 10/14/07 1:33 PM, "george w. kennie" <GEOBET@GIS.NET>wrote: <BR>> > <BR>> > > Ahaaaa ! .................for the first time in all these years I understan
d <BR>> > > the reasoning of my good friend Ron Lockhart with his swimming pool analogy, <BR>> > > but,........there's a fly in the ointment !!!!!!!!!!!! <BR>> > > Someone, maybe Nat, mentioned that air is a fluid. I agree ! Moving air is <BR>> a <BR>> > > CURRENT ! In order for the swimming pool analogy to equate to our situation <BR>> > > of flying in a crosswind, the pool would need to be converted into a hot tub <BR>> > > with jets located all down one side and exhaust outlets on the other side so <BR>> > > that a cross CURRENT could be established (same as the crossing CURRENT <BR>> we're <BR>> > > flying in ) whereupon the swimmer would then be pushed to the exhaust side <BR>> of <BR>> > > the pool. He would certainly feel the force of the current exerting a <BR>> > > deleterious effect on his intended swimming direction and would have to <BR>> > > compensate and if he
was in a boat with a rudder (with forward propulsion) <BR>> he <BR>> > > would aquavane vectorially due to the combined effect of the CURRENT and the <BR>> > > forward propulsion. It will not make any difference whether you pick the <BR>> pool <BR>> > > up and move it sideways, fore or aft, turn it around, raise it, or lower it <BR>> as <BR>> > > long as the AC doesn't go out. :>) <BR>> > > Who else,...me <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> From: Ron Lockhart <mailto:ronlock@comcast.net><BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:46 PM <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] (no subject) <BR>> > &g
t;> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> See comments at end of RJO post. <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> From: rjo626@aol.com <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 4:55 PM <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (no subject) <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> The 010 track <BR>> > >>> is caused not by a weathervane effect, but by the body of air moving from <BR>> > >>> west to east while airplane progresses <BR>> > >>> through it on north heading. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> During this flight, (and i
n <BR>> > >>> Case 1 and 2) a yaw string would be straight, no wind hits side of <BR>> > >>> airplane. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> I'm missing something here. The body of air moving from west to east is <BR>> > >>> not hitting the airplane? Then what makes it go off course? Please <BR>> > >>> explain. <BR>> > >>> RJO <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Comments- <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> The airplane is carried along in the west to east movement of the body of <BR>> > >>> air. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Sort like swiming in north direction in a swimming pool. And a big <BR>> giant <BR>> > >>> (wind) picked up the pool <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> and carried it in a west to east direction. You would wind up going west <BR>> > >>> to east,
but would not <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> have been hit on your west side by water. You would still be swimming <BR>> > >>> north, so you would travel <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> north on account of your swimming (airplane airspeed) and at the same <BR>> time <BR>> > >>> be carried east by <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> by the giant (wind) <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Another way of looking at it - a non powered balloon in the same body of <BR>> > >>> air will be carried in the same west to east direction, and same speed as <BR>> > >>> the wind. If you were riding in the balloon, you would feel zero wind, <BR>> > >>> cause balloon is not moving in the body of air. Your direction of <BR>> movement <BR>> > >>> over the ground will be same
direction and speed as the wind. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> If balloon had a yaw string, it would point straight down, same as it <BR>> would <BR>> > >>> if in no wind air, which means it would not <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> be moving over ground. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> This "wind doesn't hit the side of the airplane" discussion ignors <BR>> gusting <BR>> > >>> wind, random turbulence, etc. that might momentarily "hit" the plane and <BR>> > >>> cause changes in heading, pitch and airspeed. They are relatively short <BR>> > >>> duration. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Later, Ron Lockhart <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> &g
t; >>> <BR>> > >>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail <BR>> > >>> <BR>> <HTTP: <BR index.htm?ncid="A" en-us aol mailtour cdn.webmail.aol.com o.aolcdn.com>> > >>> OLAOF00020000000970> ! <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >
;> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </DIV></mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:ronlock@comcast.net></body></html>