<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] (no subject)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>George,<BR>
<BR>
I think Ron’s point is that the “moving pool” IS the same...except the water is not moving relative to the pool. The water is moving just as fast if the giant (I can’t believe you guys have sucked me into this conversation or worse, this analogy) was running down the street with the pool, as it would be if there was a river..it’s just that the walls of the pool are moving with it. <BR>
<BR>
If the pool was SO big, that there was no frame of reference...the water could be flowing at any speed and you would never know...(until you finally got close to a side :)<BR>
<BR>
-M<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 10/14/07 1:33 PM, "george w. kennie" <geobet@gis.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Arial">Ahaaaa ! .................for the first time in all these years I understand the reasoning of my good friend Ron Lockhart with his swimming pool analogy, but,........there's a fly in the ointment !!!!!!!!!!!! <BR>
Someone, maybe Nat, mentioned that air is a fluid. I agree ! Moving air is a CURRENT ! In order for the swimming pool analogy to equate to our situation of flying in a crosswind, the pool would need to be converted into a hot tub with jets located all down one side and exhaust outlets on the other side so that a cross CURRENT could be established (same as the crossing CURRENT we're flying in ) whereupon the swimmer would then be pushed to the exhaust side of the pool. He would certainly feel the force of the current exerting a deleterious effect on his intended swimming direction and would have to compensate and if he was in a boat with a rudder (with forward propulsion) he would aquavane vectorially due to the combined effect of the CURRENT and the forward propulsion. It will not make any difference whether you pick the pool up and move it sideways, fore or aft, turn it around, raise it, or lower it as long as the AC doesn't go out. :>)<BR>
Who else,...me</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<BR>
<B>From:</B> Ron Lockhart <a href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net"><mailto:ronlock@comcast.net></a> <BR>
<BR>
<B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a> <BR>
<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:46 PM<BR>
<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] (no subject)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">See comments at end of RJO post.<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT></SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<BR>
<B>From:</B> rjo626@aol.com <BR>
<BR>
<B>To:</B> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>
<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 13, 2007 4:55 PM<BR>
<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] (no subject)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The 010 track<BR>
is caused not by a weathervane effect, but by the body of air moving from<BR>
west to east while airplane progresses<BR>
through it on north heading.<BR>
<BR>
During this flight, (and in<BR>
Case 1 and 2) a yaw string would be straight, no wind hits side of airplane.<BR>
<BR>
I'm missing something here. The body of air moving from west to east is <BR>
not hitting the airplane? Then what makes it go off course? Please explain.<BR>
RJO<BR>
<BR>
Comments- <BR>
<BR>
The airplane is carried along in the west to east movement of the body of air.<BR>
<BR>
Sort like swiming in north direction in a swimming pool. And a big giant (wind) picked up the pool<BR>
<BR>
and carried it in a west to east direction. You would wind up going west to east, but would not<BR>
<BR>
have been hit on your west side by water. You would still be swimming north, so you would travel<BR>
<BR>
north on account of your swimming (airplane airspeed) and at the same time be carried east by<BR>
<BR>
by the giant (wind)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Another way of looking at it - a non powered balloon in the same body of air will be carried in the same west to east direction, and same speed as the wind. If you were riding in the balloon, you would feel zero wind, cause balloon is not moving in the body of air. Your direction of movement over the ground will be same direction and speed as the wind.<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">If balloon had a yaw string, it would point straight down, same as it would if in no wind air, which means it would not<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">be moving over ground.<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
This "wind doesn't hit the side of the airplane" discussion ignors gusting wind, random turbulence, etc. that might momentarily "hit" the plane and cause changes in heading, pitch and airspeed. They are relatively short duration.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial">Later, Ron Lockhart<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="100%"> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail <a href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970"><http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970></a> !<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="100%"> <BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="100%"> <BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"></FONT></SPAN><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'>_______________________________________________<BR>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>