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<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been folloing this thread and there is one thing that
puzzles me. The vertical fin and rudder are (and I'm guessing) about 20% of the
total side area of a pattern plane. If it were weathervaning,why wouldn't the
nose be more prone to blow in the direction of the wind?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=drykert2@rochester.rr.com href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com">Del
K. Rykert</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:23
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thank goodness judges don't have a
T & B ball in a panel in front of them to watch how many are skidding
through the air.. grins.. I have always felt if all things are pure the
pattern airplane in true corrected crab maintains it same speed when pulling
to vertical and the crosswind component stays constant then no further input
is needed till your speed starts to decay when pulling vertical. What
many are doing is flying one wing low when in level fight then when they pull
vertical have to sneak in some extra correction for pulling a highly visible
vertical to the judges. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
Del</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jim.woodward@baesystems.com
href="mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com">Woodward, Jim</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:31
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob – the correct
answer on using aileron during a radius, for the purpose of wind correction,
is that if you are NOT using it is a downgrade(able). It’s
impossible in every way to use only rudder through a radius actually keep
the “wings-level” to the intended flight path.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maneuvers are to be
wind-corrected and flown in a single vertical plane – anything less is
uncivilized </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The wings should be
“level” at every part of the curve/radius, and the only way to do that is by
rolling the plane, slightly.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></ST1:PERSONNAME><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
W.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Richards<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:19
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</ST1:PERSONNAME><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">That is the best description I have read so far.
Agree 100%.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Not long ago, I was talking with someone about wind
correction and mentioned that a very small amount of aileron should be used
when pulling a radius to a vertical line. He said if he ever saw me do it
while he was judging, he would downgrade. I told him if I do it right, he
will never see it. :-)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob R.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">J N Hiller
<jnhiller@earthlink.net></SPAN></I></B>
wrote:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This has been an interesting
discussion. The airplane dose not establish a crab angle on it’s own when
in the air. The airplane has a crab angle in horizontal flight and when it
is pulled vertical the wings will not be perpendicular to the flight path
without a roll correction. The need for the correction will be apparent
and automatically applied prior to finishing the radius. When a roll input
is applied with elevator it changes the heading in the direction of roll,
(think barrel roll) in this case into the wind as it finishes the radius.
Most of the time it will be excessive requiring a little opposite (down
wind) rudder correction unless the upwind wing was high entering the
pull-up. Once the airplane is leaning to one side in a vertical the lean
will increase and is especially noticeable as it slows. Some increase is
needed to maintain wind correction and the need for opposite rudder to
maintain a vertical track depends on how rapidly the airplane is
decelerated. Most of the time I will try to apply some down wind rudder
with the roll correction at about 45 degrees, before the need becomes
visible as it is nearly always required. In short just point the airplane
in the direction you want it to go and stir the sticks as
necessary.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><SPAN
class=EmailStyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Hiller<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></FONT></DIV>
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