<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 9">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 9">
<link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01C80B32.F7F0E890">
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:1627421319 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.MsoNormalIndent, li.MsoNormalIndent, div.MsoNormalIndent
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.gmailquote
{mso-style-name:gmail_quote;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue style='tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Oh boy, we
now have a 90-degree wind change, right down the runway. Yes you are correct,
the nose will need to be pitched to the belly to maintain a vertical track down
line. Most of the time a stall turn into or with the wind is more difficult because
just before kicking full rudder the airplane will need to be brought back to
vertical or it will flop and the airspeed is virtually gone. Carrying some
power or bleeping the throttle or initiating the stall turn prematurely results
in a fly-over with a 1-2 wingspan offset (1/2 span allowed) or more, however
this downgrade is less than a zero and I see it a lot. Immediately after the
rotation the nose will need to be pitched into the wind and gradually brought
back to near vertical as the speed increases. Flying in the wind can be fun if
you have a back-up airplane.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Wilson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 10, 2007
10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I understand
that the CG is the point that is judged on the up and down-line. So...on
an upline directly into the wind the airplane will be something less than
vertical. Conversely, on the downline the airplane will have to be
"over-rotated" (actually somewhat inverted) to maintain its vertical
track. Recovery to horizontal flight, then, will be slightly more
than 1/4 loop. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Is this
correct?<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=gmailquote><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>On 10/10/07, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Bob Richards</span></b>
<<a href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">bob@toprudder.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>That is the best description I have read so far. Agree 100%.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>Not long ago, I was talking with someone about wind correction and
mentioned that a very small amount of aileron should be used when pulling a
radius to a vertical line. He said if he ever saw me do it while he was
judging, he would downgrade. I told him if I do it right, he will never see it.
:-) </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>Bob R.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'><br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>J N Hiller <<a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>></span></i></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:45.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>This
has been an interesting discussion. The airplane dose not establish a crab
angle on it's own when in the air. The airplane has a crab angle in horizontal
flight and when it is pulled vertical the wings will not be perpendicular to
the flight path without a roll correction. The need for the correction will be
apparent and automatically applied prior to finishing the radius. When a roll
input is applied with elevator it changes the heading in the direction of roll,
(think barrel roll) in this case into the wind as it finishes the radius. Most
of the time it will be excessive requiring a little opposite (down wind) rudder
correction unless the upwind wing was high entering the pull-up. Once the
airplane is leaning to one side in a vertical the lean will increase and is
especially noticeable as it slows. Some increase is needed to maintain wind
correction and the need for opposite rudder to maintain a vertical track
depends on how rapidly the airplane is decelerated. Most of the time I will try
to apply some down wind rudder with the roll correction at about 45 degrees,
before the need becomes visible as it is nearly always required. In short just
point the airplane in the direction you want it to go and stir the sticks as
necessary. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:45.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Jim
Hiller</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:45.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:40.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>