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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You guys have me a bit confused as
well. I do not think it is as simple as the plane blows with the
wind. Most pattern designs will “weather-vane” . They
will, on there own, establish a crab angle into the wind. I am sure it
varies by design. The more area behind the CG compared to in front of the
CG would make it weather-vane into the wind more (as I see it). If the
plane did not “feel” the wind then why is it easier to stall turn
into the wind then with it? Stalling with the wind (stalling out with a
cross wind blowing out) is difficult at best. When the plane crabs into
the wind (on its own) the prop direction (thrust) is now counteracting some of
the just getting blown with the wind. In a perfect design the increased
side thrust from the prop would compensate for the opposite movement of being
blown by the wind. I think once you go to knife edge or do rolling
maneuvers the added area of the wing getting blown by the cross wind and the
fact that the plane will not “weather-vane” in its pitch axis
when on its side causes the plane to “just get blown with the wind”
and go along for the ride.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Wilson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 10, 2007
9:20 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Wow, and this was just an innocent question about a stall turn! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Now, as I pull vertical for the stall turn maneuver, in a cross wind,
my mind is going to internally hemorrhage trying to sort out who said what:)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 10/10/07, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Bob
Richards</span></b> <<a href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">bob@toprudder.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No, it depends on how fast it is coming down. :-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div><span id="q_11589a52ec1e0978_1">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<span class=e><b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Ken
Thompson <<a href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net" target="_blank">mrandmrst@comcast.net</a>></span></i>
</b>wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Wild guess...there is none ;-)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:kurt@bozarthhomes.com" target="_blank"
title="kurt@bozarthhomes.com">Kurt Bozarth</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List' </a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, October
09, 2007 7:49 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rudder<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Guess what the wind chill factor is when
riding in a hot air balloon?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kurt</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org </a>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Del K. Rykert<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 09, 2007
2:39 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I still find it amazing after all these
years it is people with full scale experience that rarely have a problem
with the concept Bill just mentioned. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net" target="_blank"
title="billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, October
09, 2007 3:28 PM </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rudder </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Correct. The airplane does NOT know the wind is
blowing. If we were moving in the same direction/velocity the wind is
moving, (thus matching the airplane direction/velocity), the airplane would
have no vector. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:terryb@beachlers.com" target="_blank" title="terryb@beachlers.com">Terry
Beachler</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, October
09, 2007 2:59 PM </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rudder </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
J & B<br>
Weather vane implies the wind blowing the tail away from and the nose into the
wind which would be desirable for (self)correcting for crosswind. This would
imply that an airplane on a cross country flight would self correct into a
crosswind, no crab necessary. Or the reverse, pilot would have to hold rudder
for a couple of hours on a cross country flight. Talk about a way to induce
asymmetrical leg muscles...wow! <br>
<br>
Rudder is used to point the noise into the wind i.e. to induce crab. Full scale
pilots make a small coordinated turn into the wind to create crab angle and the
desired ground track. I think I read in some pattern stuff that pattern pilots
can induce crab and it either presents better to a judge or they can sneak the
crab in a way not so easily detected by the judge. Weathervaning would
only happen on the ground with a taildragger, usually the beginning of a ground
loop. Or with the airplane on a pylon on the vertical axis, just like a
weathervane. <br>
<br>
Crab angle and track apply here. Crosswind acts upon the whole airplane in
flight, not just the tail surface. If we turn this whole situation 90 degrees
and fly into a headwind and pull up, the airplane would flop over on its back
because of the greater exposed surface of the wing area. The wing would have a
greater weathervane effect. But it does not work thataway. <br>
<br>
Bob and I have been having fun with this one for a while.<br>
<br>
Terry Beachler<br>
<br>
At 13:01 10/9/2007, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>weathervane by cause of wind. If you
straighten the plane out to look vertical, the track (actual line drawn) will
move with the wind and not be vertical and be cause for a downgrade. Someone
has a clip from the rule book covering all parts of this. <br>
</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target="_blank">www.jasonshulman.com </a><br>
<a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target="_blank">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target="_blank">www.composite-arf.com</a></span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>From: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org </a>]On Behalf Of Terry
Beachler</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Do you mean crab (induce by rudder) or weathervane as if the wind is
applying a force upon the tail and causing a turn toward the wind about the
vertical axis. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Terryb<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 12:10 10/9/2007, you
wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Bob,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The airplane should weathervane into the
wind, as long as the track of the plane is straight (track- actual line/path of
the plane). </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Jason</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><a href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target="_blank">www.jasonshulman.com
</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target="_blank">www.shulmanaviation.com
</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target="_blank">www.composite-arf.com
</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>From: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[ <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5DOn" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On
</a>Behalf Of Bob Wilson </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:53 AM </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Some great ideas. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I'm going to give the 60-70% rudder expo a shot and see how it works.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I'd like to do the stall turns on low rate, as Jason reccommends, but
when stall turning into the wind my practice airplane will not go vertical (on
the downline) unless I have high rates (it weathervanes slightly towards the wind).
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I also liked John Pavlick's recommendation on the two consecutive
rolls. I'm probably being too anal in coordinating rudder, aileron and
elevator because I always seem to run out of room. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>So much to learn and the damn winter is coming!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks guys,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Bob Wilson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Checked by AVG Free Edition. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date:
10/9/2007 08:44<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </a><br>
<br>
<br>
No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition. <br>
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date: 10/9/2007 08:44<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'><br>
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