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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That would put the center manuever for both
airplanes in the "triangle of death" which, I believe would be worse than
parallel flight. I believe that Crowley can handle the 10
degree or a a slightly lesser degree. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mike</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patterndude@tx.rr.com href="mailto:patterndude@tx.rr.com">Lance Van
Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 01, 2007 9:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air
discussion</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Most fields, including Crowley, may not handle a
10 degree cant outwards, but an inward can't would fit. Would this look
too weird? At 150m there is no danger in crossing the flight line, but
still....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=drmikedds@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr.
Mike Harrison</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 26, 2007
3:27 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air
discussion</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think the 10 degree offset has merit. I
believe most fields can accommodate that. Make that 10'('-short for
degree) for each pilot from runway, effecting a net 20' change.
The centerline would be offset 10' each also. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also, another help is to separate the lines
farther so that center manuevers do not overlap. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is easy enough for the CD at some contest
somewhere to try. I would encourage it. I don't know of any
contests we(you and I) have been to that this could not be
implimented. I can think of 4 midairs that would have been avoided if
this system were in place. You-2 midairs, Don Ramsey -1, Glen
Watson-1. That is a loss in the last 3 years of 7 airplanes- about
$14,000. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am all for this concept.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lets try it a t Crowley.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>ps as far as previous comments that midairs are
rare and a necessity of the sport, I disagree. They are all too
common, they effect quality of flying, they are a stupid loss, and there has
to be a reasonable way to avoid it. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkeithblack@gmail.com href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith
Black</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 26, 2007
1:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mid-Air discussion</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The problem is that one avoidance caller
can't do a good job and would sound the alarm too often due to the depth
perception issue. A second caller (spotter) at the corner of the box would
reduce alerts to a minimum and would probably allow the spotters to
anticipate collisions much sooner. I think this is at least worth
experimenting with.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As to the offset paths, adequite offset paths
are not possible at most fields due to fly-over issues and we're already
flying off by 10 degrees as we go in and out constantly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As to agreeing who flies close and who flies
near, I've tried this at practice an it's amazing how often two pilots
still drift to common ground. Plus, this often would not be agreeable
to both pilots.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ;
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 26, 2007
6:52 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mid-Air discussion</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Probably the avoidance callers between both lines makes
sense. He could be consider a third judge. If he sound
the horn means that both pilots has the right to bail out and they can
resume the fly. It has to be organized. The pilots flying in
line A will be instructed to go down and cut the engine. The
pilots in line B will be instructed to go up. Of course if they
are rolling they will need to stop rolling. We need to think what
needs to be done when we are flying vertical. It could be one
bail to the right and the other bail to the left or just both cut
engines. The avoidance judges will be the pilots that just finish
their rounds.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think that the pilot's caller can pay attention to both
planes. He is busy trying to help the pilot and reading the next
manuever. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Dave Michael"
<davidmichael1@comcast.net> <BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>No- if it's obvious that you were in no
danger of a mid-air then you get a zero.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jnhiller@earthlink.net
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 26,
2007 6:17 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mid-Air discussion</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle21><FONT face=Arial
color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Thanks,
now I understand. If I didn’t hit the other airplane I obviously
didn’t need to bail out and would receive a
zero.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle21><FONT face=Arial
color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Jim
Hiller<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle21><FONT face=Arial
color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dave
Michael<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:39 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No- you
can't bail in this situation. It would be obvious to the
judges and you'd receive a 0 on the manuever- and the next as well
if you were to exit in the wrong direction or orientation for the
next manuever.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----
Original Message ----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV style="font-color: black">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=jnhiller@earthlink.net href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">J
N Hiller</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday,
September 25, 2007 9:39 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">If
I am in the process of hosing a maneuver can I bail out claming
mid-air avoidance and re-fly it?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I
have only had one mid-air in pattern competition and that was
pre-turnaround, on a turnaround over a quarter mile out. I had a
close one this year I saw the other airplane go by and heard the
gasps from behind without flinching. I flew in a Scale Masters
finals competition once in LasVegas with five flight lines. I have
gotten so I don’t pay any attention to other airplanes when I am
flying.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I
guess I would flinch plenty, maybe even crash if we were using that
140 DB air horn to warn of potential
midairs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Jim
Hiller<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
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class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 76.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dave
Michael<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:45 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: "><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 76.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 76.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I recall a
discussion on this subject earlier in the year. My background
is heavy IMAC but I am wanting to fly some more pattern soon.
Part of the earlier discussion was about the issue that calling
avoidance and breaking from the sequence if you think you might
mid-air is allowed in IMAC but not in pattern.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 76.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 76.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In 10+
years of IMAC competition- maybe 40-50 contests - I can only think
of a few mid-airs, maybe three or so. Believe me when I say
that calling avoidance and breaking the sequence is not something
that you want to do in the heat of competition- it can really throw
off a good sequence. Having said that, with fewer
mid-airs in IMAC perhaps we can conclude that allowing
sequence breaks to avoid potential mid-airs makes sense for pattern
too. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></F!
ONT></P>
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face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 76.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave
Michael</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----
Original Message ----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV style="font-color: black">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=tkeithblack@gmail.com
href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith Black</A>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday,
September 25, 2007 5:47 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Following
my mid-air at the N. Dallas contest this weekend there's been an RCU
thread started on the subject. From this discussion an interesting
idea has evolved. For those who would like to read the thread here's
the link: <A
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6409493/anchors_6413018/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6413018">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6409493/anchors_6413018/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6413018</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN!></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you'd
just like to hear the idea I'll paste my RCU posting
below:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Calibri color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">This is
my third mid-air in four seasons. My first may have been avoided,
but the last two were a complete shock to both me and my caller. In
fact, in mid-air #2 my caller said "you're good" (meaning we were
not going to hit). The other pilot's caller walked up to me and
apologized saying that he told the other pilot that he was in the
clear. Therefore, I don't know how effective a third "spotter"
sitting between the lines could be.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: win"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Calibri color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">That
being said, two recent events have given me an idea of how we might
be able to greatly improve this problem. The first light bulb was
Vicente's suggestion of the spotter that warns the pilots. The
second event was my walk out to pick up the fragments of my beloved
Brio. As I was walking back I stood for a bit to observe the planes
looking down the flight path. It was amazing how clearly you can see
each plane as it moves in and out from the flight line.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Calibri color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">So
here's the idea: What if we sat a spotter at the corner of the box
to watch plane separation in the distance out dimension and then had
the other spotter sitting between the judges (or even back under the
cover) watching in the right to left dimension. These two spotters
could use radios with headsets and continually talk to each other.
There are many times that planes appear to be close to a mid-air
from the flight line viewpoint, however, the number of times that
both spotters would be alarmed should be! fairly minimal. When this
occurs the spotter could sound an alarm (this deserves discussion as
to the details) and each pilot could peel off of their course. If
one pilot froze the collision may still be avoided by just one pilot
taking action. Sure, this could cause a mid-air, but viewing from
two dimensions should help in alerting only when an impact is
probable.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Calibri color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Some
have stated that they've seen very few mid-airs, but my experience
in D6 and NATS is that at least 70% (if not more) of the contests
I've attended have had mid-airs. I'm not going to run away crying
and quit the hobby due to this mid-air, but reducing such losses
would be a benefit to us all!</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Calibri color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Keith
Black</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
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align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
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