<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
v\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
o\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
w\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
.SHAPE
{BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
;}
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.MsoNormalIndent, li.MsoNormalIndent, div.MsoNormalIndent
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:#993366;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Brian Young also had a midair at <st1:place
w:st="on">N Dallas</st1:place> in 2003… <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hmmm…. Cost vs Value of running 2
flight lines? How much does time saving cost…? We’d get
to see a lot more flying if only one were ran with maybe 2 ready boxes and a
line chief so flights could rapidly commence. Start the contest at 9:00
am and use a good sunspot. Get the FAI guys flying first, Masters next
etc. The safety factor would increase because there would be no carryouts
during flying in session. The pilots would know when they were going to
fly way in advance with plenty of time to mentally prepare. There would
be no fear in flight of midairs….only intense concentration on
maneuvering</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> Would a person fly 4 rounds if they knew they had to????
Contests would be a lot more laid back wouldn’t they?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is the question of pattern quality, or
just how many competition flights we can get in. Would we be better
pilots with better performance if we focused more on making each flight count????<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris White<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Lance Van Nostrand<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 01, 2007
9:25 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mid-Air discussion</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Most fields, including <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Crowley</st1:place></st1:City>,
may not handle a 10 degree cant outwards, but an inward can't would fit.
Would this look too weird? At 150m there is no danger in crossing the
flight line, but still....</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>--Lance</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" title="drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr. Mike
Harrison</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday,
September 26, 2007 3:27 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Keith,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think the 10 degree offset has merit. I believe most
fields can accommodate that. Make that 10'('-short for degree) for
each pilot from runway, effecting a net 20' change. The centerline would
be offset 10' each also. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Also, another help is to separate the lines farther so that
center manuevers do not overlap. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It is easy enough for the CD at some contest somewhere to
try. I would encourage it. I don't know of any contests we(you and
I) have been to that this could not be implimented. I can think of 4
midairs that would have been avoided if this system were in place. You-2
midairs, Don Ramsey -1, Glen Watson-1. That is a loss in the last 3 years
of 7 airplanes- about $14,000. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I am all for this concept.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Lets try it a t <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Crowley</st1:place></st1:City>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mike</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>ps as far as previous comments that midairs are rare and a
necessity of the sport, I disagree. They are all too common, they effect
quality of flying, they are a stupid loss, and there has to be a reasonable way
to avoid it. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com" title="tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith Black</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday,
September 26, 2007 1:23 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The problem is that one avoidance caller can't do a good job
and would sound the alarm too often due to the depth perception issue. A second
caller (spotter) at the corner of the box would reduce alerts to a minimum and
would probably allow the spotters to anticipate collisions much sooner. I think
this is at least worth experimenting with.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>As to the offset paths, adequite offset paths are not
possible at most fields due to fly-over issues and we're already flying off by
10 degrees as we go in and out constantly.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>As to agreeing who flies close and who flies near, I've
tried this at practice an it's amazing how often two pilots still drift to
common ground. Plus, this often would not be agreeable to both pilots.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Keith</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net" title="vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> ; <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday,
September 26, 2007 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Probably the avoidance callers between both lines makes
sense. He could be consider a third judge. If he sound the
horn means that both pilots has the right to bail out and they can resume the
fly. It has to be organized. The pilots flying in line A will be
instructed to go down and cut the engine. The pilots in line B will be
instructed to go up. Of course if they are rolling they will need to stop
rolling. We need to think what needs to be done when we are
flying vertical. It could be one bail to the right and the other
bail to the left or just both cut engines. The avoidance judges will be
the pilots that just finish their rounds.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I don't think that the pilot's caller can pay attention to both
planes. He is busy trying to help the pilot and reading the next
manuever. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div id=signature>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>--<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Dave Michael" <davidmichael1@comcast.net> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>No- if it's obvious that you were in no danger of a mid-air
then you get a zero.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday,
September 26, 2007 6:17 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks, now I understand. If I
didn’t hit the other airplane I obviously didn’t need to bail out
and would receive a zero.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Michael<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 25, 2007
7:39 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mid-Air discussion</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>No- you
can't bail in this situation. It would be obvious to the judges and you'd
receive a 0 on the manuever- and the next as well if you were to exit in the
wrong direction or orientation for the next manuever.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message
----- </span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net"
title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:39 PM</span></font><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span class=EmailStyle20><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>If I am in the
process of hosing a maneuver can I bail out claming mid-air avoidance and
re-fly it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span class=EmailStyle20><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I have only had one
mid-air in pattern competition and that was pre-turnaround, on a turnaround
over a quarter mile out. I had a close one this year I saw the other airplane
go by and heard the gasps from behind without flinching. I flew in a Scale
Masters finals competition once in LasVegas with five flight lines. I have
gotten so I don’t pay any attention to other airplanes when I am flying.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span class=EmailStyle20><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I guess I would
flinch plenty, maybe even crash if we were using that 140 DB air horn to warn
of potential midairs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span class=EmailStyle20><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span class=EmailStyle20><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:76.2pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Michael<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 25, 2007
4:45 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mid-Air discussion</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I
recall a discussion on this subject earlier in the year. My background is
heavy IMAC but I am wanting to fly some more pattern soon. Part of the
earlier discussion was about the issue that calling avoidance and breaking from
the sequence if you think you might mid-air is allowed in IMAC but not in
pattern.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In 10+
years of IMAC competition- maybe 40-50 contests - I can only think of a few
mid-airs, maybe three or so. Believe me when I say that calling avoidance
and breaking the sequence is not something that you want to do in the heat of competition-
it can really throw off a good sequence. Having said that, with
fewer mid-airs in IMAC perhaps we can conclude that allowing sequence
breaks to avoid potential mid-airs makes sense for pattern too. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"></F! ONT><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Dave
Michael</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:80.4pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message
----- </span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com"
title="tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith Black</a> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:80.4pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:47 PM</span></font><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> [NSRCA-discussion] Mid-Air discussion</span></font><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Following my mid-air at
the <st1:place w:st="on">N. Dallas</st1:place> contest this weekend there's
been an RCU thread started on the subject. From this discussion an interesting idea
has evolved. For those who would like to read the thread here's the link: <a
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6409493/anchors_6413018/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6413018">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6409493/anchors_6413018/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6413018</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'></SPAN!> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>If you'd just like to
hear the idea I'll paste my RCU posting below:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;border:none;padding:0in'><font
size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>This is my third mid-air in four seasons. My first may have been
avoided, but the last two were a complete shock to both me and my caller. In
fact, in mid-air #2 my caller said "you're good" (meaning we were not
going to hit). The other pilot's caller walked up to me and apologized saying
that he told the other pilot that he was in the clear. Therefore, I don't know
how effective a third "spotter" sitting between the lines could be.</span></font><font
color=black><span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;border:none;padding:0in'><font
size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'></span>That being said, two recent events have given me an idea of
how we might be able to greatly improve this problem. The first light bulb was
Vicente's suggestion of the spotter that warns the pilots. The second event was
my walk out to pick up the fragments of my beloved Brio. As I was walking back
I stood for a bit to observe the planes looking down the flight path. It was
amazing how clearly you can see each plane as it moves in and out from the
flight line. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;border:none;padding:0in'><font
size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>So here's the idea: What if we sat a spotter at the corner of the
box to watch plane separation in the distance out dimension and then had the
other spotter sitting between the judges (or even back under the cover)
watching in the right to left dimension. These two spotters could use radios
with headsets and continually talk to each other. There are many times that
planes appear to be close to a mid-air from the flight line viewpoint, however,
the number of times that both spotters would be alarmed should be! fairly
minimal. When this occurs the spotter could sound an alarm (this deserves
discussion as to the details) and each pilot could peel off of their course. If
one pilot froze the collision may still be avoided by just one pilot taking
action. Sure, this could cause a mid-air, but viewing from two dimensions
should help in alerting only when an impact is probable.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;border:none;padding:0in'><font
size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Some have stated that they've seen very few mid-airs, but my
experience in D6 and NATS is that at least 70% (if not more) of the contests
I've attended have had mid-airs. I'm not going to run away crying and quit the
hobby due to this mid-air, but reducing such losses would be a benefit to us
all!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;border:none;padding:0in'><font
size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>Keith Black</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:80.4pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:80.4pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:40.2pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;padding:0in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>