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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>If it could be done in a manner as not to affect the pilot
while he is flying ( crowd oooos and ahhhhhs and the occasional <A
href="mailto:holy@$#%">holy@$#%</A> what was that a 10 yada yada yada) you would
have to have a shush rule, crowd noise doesn't bother me much I can't here them
over mine and my callers laughing at what I'm doing in the air, it certainly
would be interesting to see the scores role out as the flying is happening.The
closest thing we have in d-3 to instantaneous scoring is Melisa Hester, you land
turn around thank the judges and she is almost walking up to you with your
raw printout!!!!!! </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093101220-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>gary</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>mike
mueller<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:39 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the
times.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV> So Gary wouldn't it be nice for those attending to see live
scores posted? Mike<BR><BR><B><I>"Courtney, Gary Ray"
<grcourtney@tva.gov></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=193164517-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>At the RC/RC contest in HSV AL. Don Peck will sit out in
the bleachers and educate anyone he can corner as to what they are looking at
and as to what they are supposed to be looking at, He passes out call
sheets and at one time I believe he had aresti's to show the spectators.
Granted he is no cowboy cheerleader, but he does try to educate people as to
what we as pattern flyers are about.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=193164517-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=193164517-28082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>gary</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>John
Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:34 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the
times.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I was only pointing out that there are several reasons for very few
spectators. One is that any spectator that does show up must be agressive
about asking questions in order to have a clue that there is even an official
event in progress. If we had a scoreboard and handouts accessible to
these imaginary spectators(might even help new girlfriends) that provide a
basis to ask reasonably intelligent questions like "how high can you make it
go" <SPAN class=moz-smiley-s1><SPAN>:-) </SPAN></SPAN><BR>Spectators are
available if a press release is issued to media outlets and flyers are put up
at each flying field in the area and every hobby shop.<BR><BR>Of course, if
you can guarentee the attendance of the Dallas cheerleaders in you press
release, you had better figure out how to rent some
grandstands.<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>J N Hiller wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midHDEBJEADHEDJKKHHCEKPOELIDEAA.jnhiller@earthlink.net
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<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle21><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Great, professional
callers too.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle21><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
Hiller<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle21><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jerry Stebbins<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:00
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Seems like we are
flogging the dead horse for some other reason than the "Spectators". TOC
comparisons are a reach. Most "spectators" are other contestants/helpers.
Few wannabes come out unless they are working, and if they have the pattern
itch they would be there anyway. Those are they ones we can talk
to/explain/cultivate/ let fly after the contest!.
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe the old days
of short shorts callers could be brought back by developing and
forming a set of touring callers--how about calling the Dallas
Cheerleaders and see if they would be interested. THAT would probably
increase our "Spectator" base. :) :) </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Wonder what the
underlying reason is for this thread-anyone willing to
fess-up?</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jerry</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV>From:<FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=jpavlick@idseng.com
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</A>
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></B>
<DIV></DIV>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:00 AM<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></DIV>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the
times.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Uh, what are you guys talking
about? Spectators at a Pattern contest? Where are they? Do wives and
girlfriends count?</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></DIV>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 40.2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com/">http://www.idseng.com</A></SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 44.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV>From:<FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=jgghome@comcast.net
href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">John Gayer</A>
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></B></FONT></B>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 44.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:12
AM<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 44.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the
times.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 44.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 44.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures
of pilots with airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing
handouts on the patterns and pattern in general.<BR><BR>Not having been to
an IMAC contest in years, are they doing better in providing information to
spectators? Are they getting large crowds for the unknowns and
freestyles?<BR>The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I
recall, with raw scores and handed out the patterns being flown.<BR>Must be
why they had such large crowds <SPAN class=moz-smiley-s1>:-)
</SPAN><BR>John<BR><BR>Mark Atwood wrote:
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 80.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">To take that a step
further...when was the last time you saw them televise the Figure Skating
compulsory rounds...which is basically what we fly...the EXACT same routine.
They’ve dropped the “figures” portion of the competition completely.
<BR><BR>But I still think it would be entertaining to see
scores...though I agree it is likely to create
problems.<BR><BR>-M<BR><BR><BR><BR>On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <A
href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com"><jshulman@cfl.rr.com></A>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 116.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Has anyone else
thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets face it, if you don't enjoy
precision flying, there isn't much that can be done to spice it up. It's
still the same sequences being flown flight after flight. <BR><BR>As for the
scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to would be the
one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just the one's in the
class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until we throw in
some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch figure
skating without music? <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/">www.jasonshulman.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com/">www.composite-arf.com</A>
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 152.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</A><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Lance Van
Nostrand<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm
willing to try things that would make pattern more spectator friendly.
I think the reason the lone spectator talking during a flight
has such an effect is because its a lone person and talking loud
enough that judges can hear is rare. If it became common place
we would soon tune it out and spectators would be better able to follow
the contest.<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your
points are excellent. In my area we don't require judges to
initial their scoresheets. I don'tunderstand this and I always
initial mine, but I also sometimes put downgrade shorthand next to my
scores for pilots that enjoy knowing why they got a certain score.
The occasions that pilots have approached me afterwards were
supportive and spiritbuilding.<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">--Lance<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 188.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR>----- Original Message
----- <BR> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
Woodward, Jim <A
href="mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com"><mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com></A>
<BR> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA
Mailing List <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A>
<BR> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08 PM<BR> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we
behind the
times?<BR> <BR><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I heard a story
from this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors that was in
contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who
was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
remark. I think that audience input or influence is something we
should steer away from for precision aerobatics. We certainly do
not need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to
be heard by the judges are not good.<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Although slightly
off topic – what I do think we should do is post all raw scores every
flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC). I
think this would provide the following
opportunities:</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 224.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><!--[if
!supportLists]--><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">1.<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><!--[endif]--><FONT face=Verdana
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The availability
of the raw scores would in itself represent and INCREDIBLE judges
training tool. Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch
flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and
see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that
flight. There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate
judging training (.. ideas welcome).</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 224.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><!--[if
!supportLists]--><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2.<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><!--[endif]--><FONT face=Verdana
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Posting of raw
scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how they performed
compared to their judging partners. There is all kinds of good
value that could come from this. Whether noted privately or
discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check
yourself.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 224.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><!--[if
!supportLists]--><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3.<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><!--[endif]--><FONT face=Verdana
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Posting of raw
scores would help keep the honest man honest. By posting raw
scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other
bias’ would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that
the judges scores would be posted.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 224.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><!--[if
!supportLists]--><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">4.<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><!--[endif]--><FONT face=Verdana
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">And most
importantly, increased “transparency” in the system helps the seasoned
and new comer alike understand the process of the contest, scoring,
and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be. I believe that no
matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you
(& everyone) was dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key
to this. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 224.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><!--[if
!supportLists]--><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">5.<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><!--[endif]--><FONT face=Verdana
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">OK – last one –
it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much discussion during and
after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard, away from a shadowy
discussion, and brings to the open this topic which everyone is
already discussing. This would do a lot to remove ammunition
from the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have.
Transparency is good </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">J
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 188.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I write none of
this from the sour-grapes perspective. I love this stuff.
I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out
weight the potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor
and also provide judges training.<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Thanks,<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Jim
W.<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">CONFIDENTIALITY
NOTICE:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> This e-mail message,
including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended
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Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message. <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=4><SPAN
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face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
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align=center><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
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color=black size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 188.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Verdana size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</A>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>JShulman<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we
behind the times?<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR> <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=blue size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Probably the
best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we screw-up...
I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar
when someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong!
Total Chaos!<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR><BR> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/">www.jasonshulman.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com/">www.composite-arf.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
<BR> </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 224.4pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><B><FONT face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">On Behalf
Of </SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Derek
Koopowitz<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR> <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">can you just imagine all the "oohhhss
and aahhhs" from the spectators.
:)</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></FONT></B></FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
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