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<DIV>I remember Kathy, but Norm? <VBG></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Scott Anderson" <scott@rcfoamy.com> <BR><BR>> Yep I remember those days of Norm with his wife Kathy calling, in D1.. He <BR>> could have crashed and still got points..lol <BR>> <BR>> Scott 529 <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: <RANDY9004@COMCAST.NET><BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:16 PM <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> >A cheerleader can call for me anytime. <BR>> > <BR>> > Randy <BR>> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- <BR>> > From: "J N Hiller" <JNHILLER@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>> >> Great, professional callers too. <BR>> >> Jim Hiller <BR>> >> <BR>> >> -----Original Message----- <BR>&
gt; >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jerry <BR>> >> Stebbins <BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:00 AM <BR>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Seems like we are flogging the dead horse for some other reason than the <BR>> >> "Spectators". TOC comparisons are a reach. Most "spectators" are other <BR>> >> contestants/helpers. Few wannabes come out unless they are working, and <BR>> >> if <BR>> >> they have the pattern itch they would be there anyway. Those are they <BR>> >> ones <BR>> >> we can talk to/explain/cultivate/ let fly after the contest!. <BR>> >> Maybe the old days of short shorts callers could be brought back by <BR>> >> developing and forming a set of touring cal
lers--how about calling the <BR>> >> Dallas Cheerleaders and see if they would be interested. THAT would <BR>> >> probably <BR>> >> increase our "Spectator" base. :) :) <BR>> >> Wonder what the underlying reason is for this thread-anyone willing to <BR>> >> fess-up? <BR>> >> Jerry <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >> From: John Pavlick <mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com><BR>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:00 AM <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Uh, what are you guys talking about? Spectators at a Pattern contest? <BR>> >> Where <BR>> >> are they? Do wives and girlfriends count? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> John Pavlick <BR>> >> http://www.idseng.com <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>&
gt; >> From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome@comcast.net><BR>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:12 AM <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures of pilots with <BR>> >> airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing handouts on the <BR>> >> patterns and pattern in general. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Not having been to an IMAC contest in years, are they doing better in <BR>> >> providing information to spectators? Are they getting large crowds for <BR>> >> the <BR>> >> unknowns and freestyles? <BR>> >> The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I recall, with <BR>> >> raw <BR>> >> scores and handed out the patterns being flown. <BR>> >> Must be why they h
ad such large crowds :-) <BR>> >> John <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Mark Atwood wrote: <BR>> >> To take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them <BR>> >> televise <BR>> >> the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically what we <BR>> >> fly...the <BR>> >> EXACT same routine. They've dropped the "figures" portion of the <BR>> >> competition completely. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though I agree <BR>> >> it <BR>> >> is likely to create problems. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> -M <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <JSHULMAN@CFL.RR.COM><BR>> >> <mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com>wrote: <BR>> >> Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets face it, <BR>> >> if <BR>> >> you don't enjoy pr
ecision flying, there isn't much that can be done to <BR>> >> spice <BR>> >> it up. It's still the same sequences being flown flight after flight. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to <BR>> >> would <BR>> >> be the one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just the one's <BR>> >> in <BR>> >> the class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until we throw <BR>> >> in <BR>> >> some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch <BR>> >> figure <BR>> >> skating without music? <BR>> >> Regards, <BR>> >> Jason <BR>> >> www.jasonshulman.com <HTTP: www.jasonshulman.com><BR>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com <HTTP: www.shulmanaviation.com><BR>> >> www.composite-arf.com <HTTP: www.composite-arf.com><BR>> >> <BR>> >> -----Original Message----
- <BR>> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>[ <BR>> >> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <BR>> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D>On Behalf Of Lance <BR>> >> Van <BR>> >> Nostrand <BR>> >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM <BR>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> I'm willing to try things that would make pattern more spectator <BR>> >> friendly. <BR>> >> I think the reason the lone spectator talking during a flight has such <BR>> >> an <BR>> >> effect is because its a lone person and talking loud enough that judges <BR>> >> can <BR>> >> hear is rare. If it became common place we would soon tune it out and <BR>> >> spectat
ors would be better able to follow the contest. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Your points are excellent. In my area we don't require judges to <BR>> >> initial <BR>> >> their scoresheets. I don'tunderstand this and I always initial mine, <BR>> >> but I <BR>> >> also sometimes put downgrade shorthand next to my scores for pilots that <BR>> >> enjoy knowing why they got a certain score. The occasions that pilots <BR>> >> have <BR>> >> approached me afterwards were supportive and spiritbuilding. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> --Lance <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >> <BR>> >> From: Woodward, Jim <mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com><BR>> >> <mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com><BR>> >> <BR>> >> To: NSRCA Ma
iling List <mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> <BR>> >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08 PM <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced <BR>> >> competitors <BR>> >> that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another <BR>> >> pilot <BR>> >> who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate <BR>> >> remark. I think that audience input or influence is something we should <BR>> >> steer away from for precision aerobatics. We certainly do not need it <BR>> >> to <BR>> >> be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the <BR>> &g
t;> judges are not good. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Although slightly off topic - what I do think we should do is post all <BR>> >> raw <BR>> >> scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC). <BR>> >> I <BR>> >> think this would provide the following opportunities: <BR>> >> 1. The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and <BR>> >> INCREDIBLE judges training tool. Seasoned and new competitor alike <BR>> >> could <BR>> >> watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back later <BR>> >> and <BR>> >> see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that <BR>> >> flight. There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging <BR>> >> training (.. ideas welcome). <BR>> >> 2. Posting of raw scores would allow "judges" to after-the-fact see how <BR>> >> they
performed compared to their judging partners. There is all kinds <BR>> >> of <BR>> >> good value that could come from this. Whether noted privately or <BR>> >> discussed <BR>> >> between each other, it is good from time to time to check yourself. <BR>> >> 3. Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest. By <BR>> >> posting <BR>> >> raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut <BR>> >> it: <BR>> >> Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, "teams", regionality, or other bias' would <BR>> >> be <BR>> >> removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges scores <BR>> >> would be posted. <BR>> >> 4. And most importantly, increased "transparency" in the system helps <BR>> >> the <BR>> >> seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the contest, <BR>> >> scoring, and "how" the 1000, 900, or 800
's came to be. I believe that <BR>> >> no <BR>> >> matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you (& <BR>> >> everyone) was dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key to this. <BR>> >> 5. OK - last one - it takes "scoring" which is a topic of much <BR>> >> discussion <BR>> >> during and after a pattern contest in case you haven't heard, away from <BR>> >> a <BR>> >> shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which everyone is <BR>> >> already discussing. This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the <BR>> >> conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have. <BR>> >> Transparency <BR>> >> is good J <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective. I love this <BR>> >> stuff. <BR>> >> I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight
<BR>> >> the <BR>> >> potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and also <BR>> >> provide <BR>> >> judges training. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Thanks, <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Jim W. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, <BR>> >> is <BR>> >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain <BR>> >> confidential <BR>> >> and proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure <BR>> >> or <BR>> >> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient(s), <BR>> >> please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the <BR>> >> original message. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >
> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _____ <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>[ <BR>> >> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <BR>> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D>On Behalf Of <BR>> >> JShulman <BR>> >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM <BR>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we <BR>> >> screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the <BR>> >> OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's fro
m the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when <BR>> >> someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total <BR>> >> Chaos! <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Regards, <BR>> >> Jason <BR>> >> www.jasonshulman.com <HTTP: www.jasonshulman.com><BR>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com <HTTP: www.shulmanaviation.com><BR>> >> www.composite-arf.com <HTTP: www.composite-arf.com><BR>> >> <BR>> >> On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the spectators. <BR>> >> :) <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _____ <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca
.org <BR>> >> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _____ <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _____ <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discus
sion <BR>> >> _____ <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >> _____ <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> <BR>> _________________
______________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </BLOCKQUOTE></mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com></mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com></mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jgghome@comcast.net></mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com></body></html>