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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Not sure if I should forward these to them
or not </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stu<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>ronlock@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 28, 2007
4:45 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We
aren't behind the times.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I remember Kathy, but Norm? <VBG><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Scott Anderson" <scott@rcfoamy.com> <br>
<br>
> Yep I remember those days of Norm with his wife Kathy calling, in D1.. He <br>
> could have crashed and still got points..lol <br>
> <br>
> Scott 529 <br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> From: <br>
<RANDY9004@COMCAST.NET>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:16 PM <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> >A cheerleader can call for me anytime. <br>
> > <br>
> > Randy <br>
> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- <br>
> > From: "J N Hiller" <br>
<JNHILLER@EARTHLINK.NET>> >> Great, professional callers too. <br>
> >> Jim Hiller <br>
> >> <br>
> >> -----Original Message----! - <br>
& gt; >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
Jerry <br>
> >> Stebbins <br>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:00 AM <br>
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Seems like we are flogging the dead horse for some other reason
than the <br>
> >> "Spectators". TOC comparisons are a reach. Most
"spectators" are other <br>
> >> contestants/helpers. Few wannabes come out unless they are
working, and <br>
> >> if <br>
> >> they have the pattern itch they would be there anyway. Those are
they <br>
> >> ones <br>
> >> we can talk to/explain/cultivate/ let fly after the contest!. <br>
> >> Maybe the old days of short shorts callers could be brought back
by <br>
> >> developing and forming a set of tour! ing cal lers--how about
calling the <br>
> >> Dallas Cheerleaders and see if they would be interested. THAT
would <br>
> >> probably <br>
> >> increase our "Spectator" base. :) :) <br>
> >> Wonder what the underlying reason is for this thread-anyone
willing to <br>
> >> fess-up? <br>
> >> Jerry <br>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> >> From: John Pavlick <br>
<mailto:jpavlick_x0040_idseng.com>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >> Sent: Tuesday,
August 28, 2007 1:00 AM <br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Uh, what are you guys talking about? Spectators at a Pattern
contest? <br>
> >> Where <br>
> >> are they? Do wives and girlfriends count? <br>
> >> <br>
> >> John Pavlick <br>
> >> http://www.idseng.com <br>
> >> ----- Original Message ----! - <br>
& gt; >> From: John Gayer <br>
<mailto:jgghome_x0040_comcast.net>> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >> Sent: Tuesday,
August 28, 2007 12:12 AM <br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures of pilots
with <br>
> >> airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing handouts
on the <br>
> >> patterns and pattern in general. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Not having been to an IMAC contest in years, are they doing
better in <br>
> >> providing information to spectators? Are they getting large
crowds for <br>
> >> the <br>
> >> unknowns and freestyles? <br>
> >> The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I
recall, with <br>
> >> raw <br>
> >> scores and handed out the patterns being flown. <br>
> >> Must be why! they h ad such large crowds :-) <br>
> >> John <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Mark Atwood wrote: <br>
> >> To take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them
<br>
> >> televise <br>
> >> the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically what we
<br>
> >> fly...the <br>
> >> EXACT same routine. They've dropped the "figures"
portion of the <br>
> >> competition completely. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though
I agree <br>
> >> it <br>
> >> is likely to create problems. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> -M <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <br>
<JSHULMAN@CFL.RR.COM>> >> <mailto:jshulman_x0040_cfl.rr.com>wrote: <br>
> >> Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets
face it, <br>
> >> if <br>
> >> you don't e! njoy pr ecision flying, there isn't much that can be
done to <br>
> >> spice <br>
> >> it up. It's still the same sequences being flown flight after
flight. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would
matter to <br>
> >> would <br>
> >> be the one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just
the one's <br>
> >> in <br>
> >> the class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until
we throw <br>
> >> in <br>
> >> some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would
watch <br>
> >> figure <br>
> >> skating without music? <br>
> >> Regards, <br>
> >> Jason <br>
> >> www.jasonshulman.com <br>
<HTTP: www.jasonshulman.com>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com <br>
<HTTP: www.shulmanaviation.com>> >> www.composite-arf.com <br>
<HTTP: www.composite-arf.com>> >> <br>
> >> -----Original Mess! age---- - <br>
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>[ <br>
> >> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <br>
> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org_x0025_5D>On
Behalf Of Lance <br>
> >> Van <br>
> >> Nostrand <br>
> >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM <br>
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times? <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> I'm willing to try things that would make pattern more spectator <br>
> >> friendly. <br>
> >> I think the reason the lone spectator talking during a flight has
such <br>
> >> an <br>
> >> effect is because its a lone person and talking loud enough that
judges <br>
> >> can <br>
> >> hear is rare. If it became common place we would soon tune it out
and <br>
> >> ! spectat ors would be better able to follow the contest. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Your points are excellent. In my area we don't require judges to <br>
> >> initial <br>
> >> their scoresheets. I don'tunderstand this and I always initial
mine, <br>
> >> but I <br>
> >> also sometimes put downgrade shorthand next to my scores for
pilots that <br>
> >> enjoy knowing why they got a certain score. The occasions that
pilots <br>
> >> have <br>
> >> approached me afterwards were supportive and spiritbuilding. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> --Lance <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> >> <br>
> >> From: Woodward, Jim <br>
<mailto:jim.woodward_x0040_baesystems.com>> >> <br>
<mailto:jim.woodward_x0040_baesystems.com>> >> <br>
> >> To: N! SRCA Ma iling List <br>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >> <br>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >> <br>
> >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08 PM <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times? <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced <br>
> >> competitors <br>
> >> that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and
another <br>
> >> pilot <br>
> >> who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an
inappropriate <br>
> >> remark. I think that audience input or influence is something we
should <br>
> >> steer away from for precision aerobatics. We certainly do not
need it <br>
> >> to <br>
> >> be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard
by the <br>
! > &g t;> judges are not good. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Although slightly off topic - what I do think we should do is
post all <br>
> >> raw <br>
> >> scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the
WC). <br>
> >> I <br>
> >> think this would provide the following opportunities: <br>
> >> 1. The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent
and <br>
> >> INCREDIBLE judges training tool. Seasoned and new competitor
alike <br>
> >> could <br>
> >> watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back
later <br>
> >> and <br>
> >> see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores for
that <br>
> >> flight. There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate
judging <br>
> >> training (.. ideas welcome). <br>
> >> 2. Posting of raw scores would allow "judges" to
after-the-fact see how <br>
> >&g! t; they performed compared to their judging partners. There is
all kinds <br>
> >> of <br>
> >> good value that could come from this. Whether noted privately or <br>
> >> discussed <br>
> >> between each other, it is good from time to time to check
yourself. <br>
> >> 3. Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest.
By <br>
> >> posting <br>
> >> raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way
you cut <br>
> >> it: <br>
> >> Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, "teams", regionality, or
other bias' would <br>
> >> be <br>
> >> removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges
scores <br>
> >> would be posted. <br>
> >> 4. And most importantly, increased "transparency" in
the system helps <br>
> >> the <br>
> >> seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the
contest, <br>
> >> scoring, and "how" the 1000, 900,! or 800 's came to
be. I believe that <br>
> >> no <br>
> >> matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like
you (& <br>
> >> everyone) was dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key to this.
<br>
> >> 5. OK - last one - it takes "scoring" which is a topic
of much <br>
> >> discussion <br>
> >> during and after a pattern contest in case you haven't heard,
away from <br>
> >> a <br>
> >> shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which
everyone is <br>
> >> already discussing. This would do a lot to remove ammunition from
the <br>
> >> conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have. <br>
> >> Transparency <br>
> >> is good J <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective. I love
this <br>
> >> stuff. <br>
> >> I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out!
weight <br>
> >> the <br>
> >> potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and
also <br>
> >> provide <br>
> >> judges training. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Thanks, <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Jim W. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any
attachments, <br>
> >> is <br>
> >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain <br>
> >> confidential <br>
> >> and proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure <br>
> >> or <br>
> >> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient(s), <br>
> >> please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
of the <br>
> >> original message. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
&g! t; > > <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _____ <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>[ <br>
> >> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <br>
> >> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org_x0025_5D>On
Behalf Of <br>
> >> JShulman <br>
> >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM <br>
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times? <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough
when we <br>
> >> screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the <br>
> >> OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhh! h's fro m the crowd. Now just imagine the
uproar when <br>
> >> someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong!
Total <br>
> >> Chaos! <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Regards, <br>
> >> Jason <br>
> >> www.jasonshulman.com <br>
<HTTP: www.jasonshulman.com>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com <br>
<HTTP: www.shulmanaviation.com>> >> www.composite-arf.com <br>
<HTTP: www.composite-arf.com>> >> <br>
> >> On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from
the spectators. <br>
> >> :) <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _____ <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion@list! s.nsrca .org <br>
> >> <br>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _____ <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> <br>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _____ <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> <br>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org>> >>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca! -discus sion <br>
> >> _____ <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> >> _____ <br>
> >> <br>
> >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> <br>
> __________! _______ ______________________________ <br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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</mailto:NSRCA-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:NSRCA-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:NSRCA-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></HTTP:></HTTP:></HTTP:></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org_x0025_5D></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jim.woodward_x0040_baesystems.com></mailto:jim.woodward_x0040_baesystems.com></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org_x0025_5D></mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></HTTP:></HTTP:></HTTP:></mailto:jshulman_x0040_cfl.rr.com></mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jgghome_x0040_comcast.net></mailto:nsrca-discussion_x0040_lists.nsrca.org></mailto:jpavlick_x0040_idseng.com>
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