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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You probably right Jason, it's the same flight
after flight...and then I fly, looks nothing like the other guys
;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And as for the figure skating...it's all about the
outfits...:< )</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jshulman@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">JShulman</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 27, 2007 10:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't
behind the times.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=060552503-28082007>Has anyone
else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets face it, if you don't
enjoy precision flying, there isn't much that can be done to spice it up. It's
still the same sequences being flown flight after flight. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=060552503-28082007><BR>As for
the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to would be the
one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just the one's in the
class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until we throw in some
sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch figure skating
without music? </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Lance
Van Nostrand<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind
the times?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm willing to try things that would make
pattern more spectator friendly. I think the reason the lone spectator
talking during a flight has such an effect is because its a lone person
and talking loud enough that judges can hear is rare. If it became
common place we would soon tune it out and spectators would be better able
to follow the contest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your points are excellent. In my area we
don't require judges to initial their scoresheets. I don'tunderstand
this and I always initial mine, but I also sometimes put downgrade shorthand
next to my scores for pilots that enjoy knowing why they got a certain
score. The occasions that pilots have approached me afterwards were
supportive and spiritbuilding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jim.woodward@baesystems.com
href="mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com">Woodward, Jim</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are
we behind the times?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I heard a story
from this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors that was in
contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who was
also in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
remark. I think that audience input or influence is something we
should steer away from for precision aerobatics. We certainly do not
need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard
by the judges are not good.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Although slightly
off topic – what I do think we should do is post all raw scores every
flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC). I think
this would provide the following
opportunities:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=1>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The availability of the raw
scores would in itself represent and INCREDIBLE judges training
tool. Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch flights
together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and see if what
they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that flight.
There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging training
(.. ideas welcome).<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Posting of raw scores would
allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how they performed compared to
their judging partners. There is all kinds of good value that
could come from this. Whether noted privately or discussed between
each other, it is good from time to time to check
yourself.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Posting of raw scores would
help keep the honest man honest. By posting raw scores, I think
there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’ would
be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges
scores would be posted.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And most importantly,
increased “transparency” in the system helps the seasoned and new comer
alike understand the process of the contest, scoring, and “how” the
1000, 900, or 800’s came to be. I believe that no matter whom you
are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you (& everyone) was
dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key to this.
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">OK – last one – it takes
“scoring” which is a topic of much discussion during and after a pattern
contest in case you haven’t heard, away from a shadowy discussion, and
brings to the open this topic which everyone is already
discussing. This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have.
Transparency is good </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></LI></OL>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I write none of
this from the sour-grapes perspective. I love this stuff. I
think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight the
potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and also
provide judges training.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></ST1:PERSONNAME><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
W.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
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NOTICE:</FONT> <FONT face=Arial>This e-mail message, including any
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<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>JShulman<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</ST1:PERSONNAME><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are
we behind the times?</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Probably the best
reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we screw-up... I mean
when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from
the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets judged for a
maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total
Chaos!</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</SPAN></FONT>
<O:P></O:P></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">On
Behalf Of </SPAN></FONT></B><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Derek
Koopowitz</SPAN></FONT></ST1:PERSONNAME><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and
aahhhs" from the spectators.
:)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT>
<P>
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