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<DIV><SPAN class=600293619-27082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Wow Tim, what
a memory... I don't even remember that part of the contest. But I need to learn
how to concentrate more on my flying and less on what I hear while I fly. One
round at the Nats this year I swore I heard a judge say zero during one of
my flights (I think my 1st unknown), and from then on (3rd or 4th maneuver in) I
was a mess. Come to find out, I didn't zero anything, but I didn't know that at
the time, so I wasted away a flight for nothing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=600293619-27082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=600293619-27082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Now if I can
just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round of "self-judging" then we can
have "fun" with the judging. Although calculating the scores would be a
minor issue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>twtaylor<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind
the times?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This happened years
ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here flying a local contest. Jason decided to
try his hand at FAI in front of a set of judges. He asked and received
permission to do a practice flight in front of said FAI judges. A few of us
(My self included) sat back and watched his flight. We went through each
maneuver and talking to each other as the flight went along about what was
right and wrong and the score for each maneuver. Mind you we were 40’ away
from the judges. When Jason landed you could tell he was a bit miffed (more
like pissed). Seems our talking to each other could be heard by him and the
judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he could hear us and I
apologized to Jason and the judge’s and never did that at a contest again. BTW
IIRC He would have won that round. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Woodward, Jim<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we
behind the times?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I heard a story from
this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors that was in contention
flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who was also in
contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate remark. I think
that audience input or influence is something we should steer away from for
precision aerobatics. We certainly do not need it to be quiet like for
golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the judges are not
good.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Although slightly off
topic – what I do think we should do is post all raw scores every flight for
every pilot (I think this is done for the WC). I think this would
provide the following opportunities:<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<OL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=1>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The availability of the raw
scores would in itself represent and INCREDIBLE judges training tool.
Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch flights together, make
comments and discuss, then go back later and see if what they thought they
saw was in line with the scores for that flight. There is all kinds of
opportunity here to facilitate judging training (.. ideas
welcome).<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Posting of raw scores would
allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how they performed compared to their
judging partners. There is all kinds of good value that could come
from this. Whether noted privately or discussed between each other, it
is good from time to time to check
yourself.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Posting of raw scores would help
keep the honest man honest. By posting raw scores, I think there would
be a reduction of bias any way you cut it: Santa-Clausing,
Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’ would be removed/reduced
if the person knew ahead of time that the judges scores would be
posted.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And most importantly, increased
“transparency” in the system helps the seasoned and new comer alike
understand the process of the contest, scoring, and “how” the 1000, 900, or
800’s came to be. I believe that no matter whom you are, you want to
leave a contest and feel like you (& everyone) was dealt a fair
hand. Transparency is the key to this.
<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">OK – last one – it takes
“scoring” which is a topic of much discussion during and after a pattern
contest in case you haven’t heard, away from a shadowy discussion, and
brings to the open this topic which everyone is already discussing.
This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the conspiracy theorist and
such whom all of our districts have. Transparency is good
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></LI></OL><U1:P></U1:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I write none of this
from the sour-grapes perspective. I love this stuff. I think the
potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight the potential bad,
provide more transparency for the competitor and also provide judges
training.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName u2:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</st1:PersonName>
W.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">CONFIDENTIALITY
NOTICE:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=2><SPAN
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color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This e-mail message,
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
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<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>JShulman<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName></st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we
behind the times?</SPAN></FONT><U1:P></U1:P><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Probably the best
reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we screw-up... I mean when a
pilot screws-up and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd.
Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets judged for a maneuver that they
are doing all wrong! Total Chaos!</SPAN></FONT><U1:P></U1:P><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><U1:P></U1:P></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">On
Behalf Of </SPAN></FONT></B><st1:PersonName u2:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Derek
Koopowitz</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><U1:P></U1:P><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">can you just imagine all the "oohhhss
and aahhhs" from the spectators.
:)<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>