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<DIV>Well, sometimes is very good to hear the public and the judges. A the Nats this year, I was flying inverted full concentration getting ready for the second maneuver in Master. Suddenly, my plane started to roll extremely fast to the left. In the first split second, I didn't know what is going on. I just cut the engine. In the second split second, I hear that someone said "he lost the elevator". In that moment, I knew that I had a mid-air but I didn't know if that was my elevator. In the third split second, I gave full right aileron and the plane stop rolling. I started to give power slowly and the judges behind me were very helpful to me saying that the my plane was OK and fly around until the other plane that lost the elevator landed. We were very lucky that we didn't lost the planes but I think other pilots and judges were really helpful to get the planes back. I appreciate very much th
e help and comments from pilots and judges in that particular case.</DIV>
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<DIV>Regards, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "JShulman" <jshulman@cfl.rr.com> <BR>
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<DIV><SPAN class=600293619-27082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of the contest. But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my flying and less on what I hear while I fly. One round at the Nats this year I swore I heard a judge say zero during one of my flights (I think my 1st unknown), and from then on (3rd or 4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come to find out, I didn't zero anything, but I didn't know that at the time, so I wasted away a flight for nothing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=600293619-27082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=600293619-27082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round of "self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging. Although calculating the scores would be a minor issue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<P><FONT size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>twtaylor<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here flying a local contest. Jason decided to try his hand at FAI in front of a set of judges. He asked and received permission to do a practice flight in front of said FAI judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and watched his flight. We went through each maneuver and talking to each other as the flight went along about what was right and wrong and the score for each maneuver. Mind you we were 40’ away from the judges. When Jason landed you could tell he was a bit miffed (more like pissed). Seems our talking to each other could be heard by him and the judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he could hear us and I apologized to Jason and the judge’s and never did that at a contest again. BTW IIRC He would have won that round. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SI
ZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PersonName w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Woodward, Jim<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate remark. I think that audience input or influence is something we should steer away from for precision aerobatics. We certainly do not need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the judges are not good.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Although slightly off topic – what I do think we should do is post all raw scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC). I think this would provide the following opportunities:<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
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<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and INCREDIBLE judges training tool. Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that flight. There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging training (.. ideas welcome).<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Posting of raw scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how they performed compared to their judging partners. There is all kinds of good value that could come from this. Whether noted privately or discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check yourself.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest. By posting raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it: Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’ would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges scores would be posted.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And most importantly, increased “transparency” in the system helps the seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the contest, scoring, and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be. I believe that no matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you (& everyone) was dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key to this. <U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">OK – last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much discussion during and after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard, away from a shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which everyone is already discussing. This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have. Transparency is good </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></LI></OL><U1:P></U1:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective. I love this stuff. I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight the potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and also provide judges training.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName u2:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</st1:PersonName> W.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>JShulman<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName></st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?</SPAN></FONT><U1:P></U1:P><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total Chaos!</SPAN></FONT><U1:P></U1:P><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><U1:P></U1:P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">On Behalf Of </SPAN></FONT></B><st1:PersonName u2:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Derek Koopowitz</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><U1:P></U1:P><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the spectators. :)<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>