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<p class=MsoPlainText>Richard / John, See my comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of richard wallace<br>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:28 PM<br>
To: NSRCA Mailing List<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Gotta say though, I'm just not a fan of a national
database for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> recording Pattern results. I don't really understand
what problem this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> is intended to fix.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><span style='color:black'>If I read what John proposed
correctly, this is to give additional value and incentive to being a NSRCA
member. Being able to participate in a nationwide ranking system is appealing
to me.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Of course, I'm in the apparent minority that
believes that our current<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> self-policing system of advancement points is fine,
ESPECIALLY now<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> that points only count for four years. ...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><span style='color:black'>I agree with you. I
think peer pressure to keep people from Sandbagging is the best medicine and
forced promotions is not needed. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 2. I don't know that I'd be really interested in
seeing my 'national<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ranking' -- I've found out enough at the
Nats the past several<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> years... and 37/44 in Masters tells me enough about
where I stand... !<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><span style='color:black'>I know I would be interested
in my "national" rank as I try to progress through the classes.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> and one more thing - do we have any volunteers for
setting up and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> adminstering this national system? That's not a
trivial question or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> issue, especially in a world where (at least some)
NSRCA officers are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> in their positions not because they sought the job
in order to be in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> charge of stuff, but because there was a necessary
job to be done, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> no one else was willing to step up to do it... I do
the Champs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> standings for my District and mostly enjoy it, but
it IS a manual<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> process. Understand about hooks to automated scoring
systems like<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PACSS, but it'll still take initial work and
sustainment and then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fixes to keep it going at the national level... and
there are still<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> places around the country that still do contest
scoring manually...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b>I would be interested in volunteering my services
towards this endeavor. What would be needed would be a standardized
scoring program used by all CD's that has upload capabilities to a server, and
a website to present the information to the members. As a software
developer, it is a project I would like to participate in if it were to see the
light of day. I would also be willing to donate the bandwidth and servers
necessary to make this happen.<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Agree about helping Sportsman and maybe
Intermediates be mentored at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> contests- we usually don't have a formal system for
that, and more<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> would certainly be better.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b>This already happens to a great extent in D7. When
I showed up at a pattern contest, Troy Newman took it upon himself to mentor me
and I feel very lucky to have his experience to guide me. A formal
rule/suggestion/whatever towards this end is certainly not a bad thing.<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Also am in violent agreement about the need to grow
Pattern at the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>grass-roots level one new guy at a time - and most of us
need to plow<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>that field more thoroughly too.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Good stuff - keep it coming!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>- Robert Beaubien<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>- AMA #618061<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>- NSRCA #4121<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: John Gayer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:12 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I'd like to present three proposals that might
appeal to a few if not the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> many....<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Modified from the original proposal . Apparently not
many saw it. The first<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> one has been added<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Comments?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> NSRCA 632<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Revive the practice of assigning mentors to
Sportsman and Intermediate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> flyers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> At contests, assign an experienced competitor to
mentor, call and advise the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sportsman/ Intermediate flyers. This is nothing new,
but should be a part of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> every contest. We should try to provide a connection
that will last past the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> contest.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> As I see it, there are four issues that drasticaly
affect the ability of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> these flyers to compete effectively: aircraft
trimming, execessive throws,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> wings level and centering(also known as flying the
airplane, not letting the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> airplane fly you).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> These flyers have shown the initiative to come out
and compete. We owe them<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (and ourselves) all the help we can throw at them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Create a National Database for Pattern<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The database must contain the raw scores of all
flights for all competitors<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> by class. The only thing normalized scores are good
for is finding the right<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> finish order for each class at a contest. Raw
scores are much better for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> comparing results even at a contest. For example I
finish round one with a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 930 and round two with a 985, both to competitor A.
Now did I fly a lot<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> better in round two(I thought I did) or did
competitor A flop a stall turn<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> in the figure M in round 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Anyway once you have the raw scores by competitor
and class, you can do the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Create a National Ranking for each class based on
average points per<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> maneuver. Once this is in place and on line, we will
have a reason for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> pattern competitors to join NSRCA. you can't tell me
that there wouldn't be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> a lot of interest in seeing who is hot around the
country and how you stack<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> up against the competition. I know, the judging
isn't always equal but<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> that's always been true and we have to live with it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The data available on each competitor would include
contests entered,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> placing, advance points earned. The districts could
extract whatever data is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> required to ascertain the district champions. We
could archive previous<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> years as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Other ways to specify advancement in class become
available, percentage of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> average FAI score, even eventually moving the 10
top-rated pilots up a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> class. Possibilities are endless when you have the
data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Since the database would only be open to NSRCA
members, if you want to track<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> your National standing, joining NSRCA would be a
must. If you want to see<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> what the guy nobody heard of that just rolled in
from out of district has<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> accomplished, look him up. We've been looking for
reasons to join NSRCA, I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> feel this is one that could be big and would be
worth some investment in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> time and money. I would be willing to help with such
a project although I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> don't feel like I could take it on by myself.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Redirect the focus to our international team
competition through<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> modification of the advancement system<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Modify the advancement process to be consistent
through all classes from<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sportsman through to F3A. See section two for
possible advancement criteria<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Advancement can be forced by the advancement
criteria(see section 2) or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> voluntary.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The first year in a new and higher class is an
option year. At the end of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the option year you can downselect one class for any
reason. This has the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> advantage of being able to try out the higher class
for a year without<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> committing your entire pattern career. If you
discover that the next class<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> is beyond your means( time, money or talent) then
you option down the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> following year. If you absolutely refuse to fly your
new class, then perhaps<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> you could use the time and money to reintroduce your
self to your wife,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> girlfriend, etc. If you need a goal for the year,
focus on making your<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> rudder commands instinctive, learn to fly a
helicopter, learn to fly rolling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> circles. You would probably come back a better
pattern flyer than when you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> left.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>NSRCA-discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> mailing<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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