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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Man – not even sure which thread to
respond to but read this for what its worth:  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Masters is a nice place to hang out and
fly.  It is a diverse group of fliers ranging from the FAI capable to those
that have moved up too soon.  You are usually being judged by FAI fliers.  Each
district has their particular Masters pilots that are clearly capable of flying
FAI but have chosen not to deal with “full-point” deductions,
slightly more difficult P0X sequences, and the threat of flying F0X at a local
contest or at the Nats.  Until a rule change is made this is their decision on
what class to fly.  Others fly Masters as a strategic decision or to prove a
point.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How do you ensure there are no sandbaggers
in Masters – as Doug put it, is Masters a destination class or not? 
There are very few people in Masters that could even be considered sandbaggers. 
However think about this – some guys have jobs and lifestyle that allows
them to fly any day of the week they want at their leisure – nice right? 
Some folks need to drive significant mileage to practice and can only fly generally
once a week.  I’ve been both guys – in 2002/2003 I flew a bunch off
the lakebed and at the Tailwinds – sometimes twice a day </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> - it let to an Advanced
Nationals win (along with good coaching).  Since 2004 living in sunny sofla I’m
flying once on the weekend, and once/twice during the week of the contest.  That
is all I can do for now and stay married (… however I guess marriage is
an option compared to practicing </span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> ).  Any accomplishment I (or any of us have) must be tempered not
against what our ultimate potential is, but against what is “allowed/possible”
given work and family commitments and given proximity to “convenient”
practice sites.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The top several Masters pilots who are
completely FAI capable (… doesn’t matter if they would land in the
middle of the class, lower, or the top), I’m sure all recognize that
other competitors wonder why they haven’t moved up.  That is up to them
to detail because there is no rule in place which motivates them to move up.  I
see it both ways.  Masters is a destination class by default for many simply
because the complexity of maneuvers, where as it is a destination class for
several because they chose it to be.  Recognizing all comments put forth on the
list so far, I would not oppose a rule that said something like:  1.  Each
District Champion (any class) must move up a class for 1 year (trial).  If they
are successful and have fun – great!  If not, move back down – no problem
or consequence.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just to plug FAI – you will be
humbled – and you WILL LEARN to fly all the fundamental elements BETTER
(no ½ points).  However, this is EXACTLY what you should be learning anyways –
FAI just has a way of burning it in a little more.  I say to those highly
capable Masters pilots – make the jump and try it out!  Flying two
sequences is a GIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Man – it is nothing but a pure GIFT!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Getting to fly two sequences will liven up the practice scenarios like maybe
you have never experienced before!  Give it a shot!  Take a weekend and try to
learn a rolling circle – I bet FOR SURE you’ll get some nailed (…
its just a bad slow roll right?) – maybe you can do them better than you
thought.  The deal with learning 2 sequences is that while practicing both is
good, you need to deal with individual maneuvers early on and learn your plane
better overall, rather just during the particular maneuver of one sequence. 
Give it shot!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For the other guys with SERIOUS heartburn,
put in a rules proposal or drop it…..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> W.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<FONT SIZE="2"><div class=Section1><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1></span></font></div></div></div></FONT>
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<DIV>
<FONT SIZE="2"><div class=Section1><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Fred Huber<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 16, 2007
7:17 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
What is (should be) NSRCA's real goal?(Theway I see it)</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Consider yourself one of the guys that helps prepare
the young "up and commers"... </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>One of their first goals is to outfly you.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>A place I fit in preparing the newbies: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I teach beginners to just fly the plane. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Within a short time they usually fly better than I do.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I've had 3 students who soloed within a week of their
first time touching a transmitter.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>(one the same day...)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I taught a guy to fly a heli... over 4 years ago
now... </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I still can't hover my own heli</span></font></b></strong><font
size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>He's out teaching other people 3D now </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>and He's still occasionally asking me for tips to
improve HIS flying</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I helped him set up his newest machine last week...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>***************</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>We can either advance AMA Pattern with the rest of the
world (FAI)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Or we may as well create the "SPA-II": 1980
to 2005 AMA sequences and models only. Motto: FAI... go away.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Look up the 1959/60 Pattern rules... </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>There had to be a lot of screaming when they changed
from THAT to doing the centered maneuver sequences of the 70's...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:amad2terry@juno.com" title="amad2terry@juno.com">Adrien L
Terrenoire</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday,
August 16, 2007 4:14 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] What is (should be) NSRCA's real goal? (Theway I see it)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>While these 2 goals are OK, what about the guy who has
NO intent of competing on a global level? I have been mired in Advance
for 18 years, and at 62 I do not try to kid myself that it will get much
better. I do not have the time or resources, or interest, to burn 2 or 3
gallons of fuel a week. I enjoy the "fight", but the opportunity to get
together for a weekend with like minded individuals and have a good time is my
primary interest. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>AMA has established a good system for advancement, and
teaching the needed skills with the current 4 tier system. It is up to the
individual who reaches the top of the Masters to decide if he WANTS to make the
next step. If I were at that level, I may hold out for a National Champion ship
too. It would be interesting to know just how many of the current FAI pilots,
at the NATS, had not won the Masters at some point. My guess would be that at
least the top 20 have achieved that goal prior to moving up the FAI.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Terry T.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:30:23 -0600 John Gayer <<a
href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>> writes:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;
margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Fred has the right idea here. Is there anyone on this
list that would argue with these two goals?<br>
John<br>
<br>
Fred Huber wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'
cite="mid01e501c7dfa2$67edc440$1402a8c0@HPLaptopFHH" type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>There should be 2 primary goals</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Promotion of Pattern as a competitive event</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Preparation of pilots for international competition.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>In a nutshell...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Build the team for the F3A World championship.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>You can't have a teem without competitors... so we
have to attract people to participate.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>You can't prepare the team for the international event
if you don't work to teach the rules of... and skills needed for... the
event.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition. <br>
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19
PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
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