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<DIV>Fred: I don't know what part of "FAI and AMA are not controlled by the same
body" you do not understand!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In many smaller countries around the world FAI is the ONLY class flown in
competition. They have NO national coverning body to administer any "lower"
classes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the US, Canada, and I guess Australia, we have established National
classes. They have virtually nothing to do with FAI. A CD could run a contest
without including FAI. If that were the case, any FAI pilot could enter the
Masters class. Truth be known, any FAI flier can do that now.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do not know what class you are flying, but if you are flying Masters, and
want to be on top...work harder, don't complain that someone is "sandbagging" in
a class that by definition IS a destination class.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry T.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:08:52 -0500 "Fred Huber" <<A
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">fhhuber@clearwire.net</A>> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV><FONT size=2>If there is no support for the forcing move up from Master
to FAI</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There can be no valid argument to force anyone to ever move
up from any class.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Either the rules should have a consistant progression
system... or no system to make the guy who likes taking st place at
advanced home every contest for 30 years. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Tell Chip Hyde to fly Masters... Tell Todd Blose to fly
Intermediate, Have Jason fly Advanced... and make the contest a
joke.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Drive all the lower level competitors out of the
sport.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It'll be great for Pattern. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>We'll get hundreds of new members wanting to be able to say:
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>"I flew in Pattern and got a 100... to MattK's 1000..... he
flew Sportsman this time because he didn't want to look like a fool compared
to someone else."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Be consistant... or be shown the way the inconsistancy can
be followed through on.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More
flexibility in class selection?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Masters needs it???<BR><BR>Move up to where??
Alaska??<BR><BR>Ohhhh....drop out when you reach your allotted points,
that's what you mean. OKAY then... I see the logic<BR><BR>MattK<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 3px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
size=2></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
Fred Huber <<A
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">fhhuber@clearwire.net</A>><BR>To:
NSRCA Mailing List <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Wed, 15 Aug 2007 7:16 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility
in class selection?<BR><BR>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_7fbe6d43-6d04-4ec1-bfb4-dd5bc8eac3eb>
<DIV><FONT size=2>OK... its an AMA class</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>ALL OTHER AMA CLASSES HAVE THE FORCED MOVE UP POINT
SYSTEM.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Masters needs it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>And... there's no real support for allowing someone to
willy-nilly move between FAI and other classes whenever they want...
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>(no one does... because no one wants to practise FAI and
any other class at the same time.. the lower class would take too much time
from the FAI practice)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Rules need to be consistent... Or someone will notice that
they aren't.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=timsautopro@yahoo.com href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com">Tim
Taylor</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More
flexibility in class selection?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> <A
href="http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf"
target=_blank>http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf</A><BR><BR><B><I>Fred
Huber <<A
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">fhhuber@clearwire.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV><FONT size=2>In that case... there's no support for offering FAI
class at an AMA sanctioned event. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Its not an AMA class. Have a seperate
contest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>That worm turns 2 ways.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mrandmrst@comcast.net href="mailto:mrandmrst@comcast.net">Ken
Thompson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 15, 2007
4:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
More flexibility in class selection?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4
classes, the top level being Masters. FAI is an international
F3A class, not a AMA class..."in my opinion" there can never be a
mandatory progression from an AMA SIG class to an international
class.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for your question, my logic should,
and does, apply to every class controlled by the AMA...which
is what I'm talking about.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jgghome@comcast.net href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">John
Gayer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 15,
2007 4:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
More flexibility in class selection?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Why does this apply to every class except Masters??
<BR>Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in FAI?
:)<BR>John<BR><BR>Ken Thompson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid000401c7df83$32a718f0$7bc6b348@kencopepere
type="cite"><PRE>Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!! You will only get better if you do one of two things, 1. Fly against people that are better than you, obviously paying attention to their flights. 2. Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you. I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6 will have pilots that are better than I am, and I have Archie as a coach to help me through the little things. BTW: I fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years. That will put me at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move. Personally I have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a regular basis, AND stay in that class...it simply won't make me a better pilot. My goal is to
get better every year, with hard work and patience, it will happen. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:rcpattern@stx.rr.com"><rcpattern@stx.rr.com></A> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection? </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>I take exception to this. FAI and Masters are not related. I have been flying masters several years, finishing as high as second this year at the NATS. Yes, I'm coming back next year in Masters. I have a goal of winning the nats before I move up. I can be realistic...at some point with enough practice I might be able to crack the finals in FAI at the NATS, but I'm smart enough to know that realistically winning FAI isnt going to happen. I
would also argue that the guys that have been flying masters for years, just raise the bar. I know in different areas I've flown around the country, these are the guys that make guys fly better. Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly Masters...you'll definitely get better. 6 of the top 10 at the NATS were D6. The means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in what is probably top to bottom the most competitive class have trouble getting wood at a local contest. I can promise you though, the guys that fly here have greatly improved their flying than they would have in other parts of the country. Glen has set the bar here for a while, and I know the other guys are pushing to catch him, and if you look now at local contest scores, it is getting closer. At any given time down here in D6, I'd say 6 or 7 guys can take a round in masters. Now that makes it fun. I know when I was flying in D4 last year. Every contest I went to, was Verne K, and
Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights every flight and this makes you a better pilot. I think you should try moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where you are the following year. I bet you start moving up and before you know it you would be right there in the mix. This is a competitive activity and the only way you improve is flying against people who are better than you. Arch ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gayer <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"><jgghome@comcast.net></A> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection? To: NSRCA Mailing List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A> </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Ron, I take exception to those rules. There should be only one destination class. Why shouldn't
there be a mandatory move from Masters to F3A? They are just two patterns with a natural progression as there is between Advanced and Masters. Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, not a rules violation. john Ron Van Putte wrote: </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>The Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>move </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be "parkers" or "sandbaggers"? Ron Van Putte On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote: </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>how about changing the AMA advancemant rule and keep it very </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>simple?>> Your first contest of the year will determine your class for the </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>year. You may go up one class at any time during
the year but </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>may not </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>go back down during the year. At the start of the next year you </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>may </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>drop back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>a class. </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>This is simple enough that your fellow competitiors will know </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>if you </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>are following the rules. It will also be up to your fellow competitiors to insure that you are not sandbagging. I also feel strongly that sandbagging in Masters should not be allowed. If you disregard Sportsman, then
half of the classes </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>allow </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>parking. Obviously, F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>reason </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>pilot of </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>somewhat advanced years, I have very little interest in moving </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>to </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Masters in order to spend the rest of my pattern years trying </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>to </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>break 900 against the
parkers. I fail to see the logic in having two destination classes. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Shouldn't </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>we all aspire to progress to FAI? The current Masters schedule </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>is </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>designed as a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way. John Gayer NSRCA 632 <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</A> wrote: </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>There was a proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>a </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>had not </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>attained the skills required for the higher class. I </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>personally </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>think it is a good idea and I also see no need for the point </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>system </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>like someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>solicit </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Earl and four other guys his size to take him behind the barn
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>and </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>pressure is </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>all the control we need. I think this is worth a try. For those who have the ability and desire to achieve a spot at </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>the </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>top I don't see that we have a problem. Buddy --------------------------------------------------------------- </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>--------- </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/" target=_blank>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/</A>? </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.>>> </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>---------------------------------------------------------------- </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>-------- </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A> <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>-----------------!
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