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Arch,<br>
<br>
I have been practicing the current Masters schedule.<br>
Just for some background, I flew F3A from the beginning days of
turnaround until about 1994 and competed in grab-bag Masters before
that. I've flown in International and local meets in Australia and I've
flown advanced, expert and F3A at the Nats, the last time being 1994. I
never flew the F3A schedules well and I understand very well the
struggle to get over 900 in FAI against top-notch competition.<br>
I've never had enough time to practice and much of the practice I did
get early on was over 7000 feet in the mountains of Colorado with no
other pattern fliers around. My first pattern contest was in Colorado
in 1978(or so) and I skipped Novice to enter Sportsman where I believe
I placed (probably third). Until recently I've never had a coach to
beat on my head about what are now very old bad habits.<br>
I stopped flying pattern in 1995. I was tired of bringing up the rear
in F3A, needed a new airplane, had no time to practice or build(bad
priorities). <br>
Anyway, that should answer your comments about not knowing where I
stand if I were to move up. I've seen the quality of flying in D6
masters and I do not currently stack up well at all. and yes I believe
I have the background to make that assessment. I am currently flying
mostly masters in practice and do expect to move up next year, unless I
decide to hang out(sandbag) another year and try the NATS again in
Advanced. <span class="moz-smiley-s1"><span> :-) </span></span><br>
<br>
I do believe our pattern community would be better served by having one
destination class rather than two. I fully expected that the Masters
community would object but I still haven't seen any good reasons why it
wouldn't work. It used to.<br>
I also haven't seen any comments about the simplified advancement
scheme I proposed earlier. <br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rcpattern@stx.rr.com">rcpattern@stx.rr.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote cite="midd689c7948bf3.8bf3d689c794@texas.rr.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">John,
The two classes are not related. FAI is a whole different ballgame.
The level of commitment to get competitive there is far and away
beyond the other classes. FAI would be an example of racing dirt cars
and going to NASCAR. Same concepts, but a lot more effort is
involved. I just do not see guys that I've flown against complaining
about it. Have you ever flown masters? If not, how do you know how
you'd do? Until you actually fly the sequences against guys, you never
know. You might surprise yourself. I have flown FAI, and I know
where I can stack up. The FAI is also run in itself. Masters is
setup by the AMA. Have you seen the new FAI schedules? 09 and 11 are
going to require totally different designs. Some of the new designs
that are showing up now will fly them, but you arent going to take a 5
year old plane that was designed in 02 and fly F-09 with it
competitively. You can fly a couple of years ago design in Masters,
but if you are flying FAI, you'd be bett
er be buying the latest and greatest.
Arch
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gayer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"><jgghome@comcast.net></a>
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:50 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
To: NSRCA Mailing List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Why does this apply to every class except Masters??
Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in FAI? :)
John
Ken Thompson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!
You will only get better if you do one of two things,
1. Fly against people that are better than you, obviously paying
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">attention
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to their flights.
2. Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you.
I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">will have
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">pilots that are better
than I am, and I have Archie as a coach to help me through the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">little
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">things.
BTW: I fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years. That
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">will put me
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move.
Personally I have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">2nd on a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">regular basis, AND stay in that
class...it simply won't make me a better pilot. My goal is to
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">get better
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">every year, with hard work and patience,
it will happen.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rcpattern@stx.rr.com"><rcpattern@stx.rr.com></a>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I take exception to this. FAI and Masters are not related. I have
been flying masters several years, finishing as high as second this
year at the NATS. Yes, I'm coming back next year in Masters. I
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">have>>a goal of winning the nats before I move up. I can be
realistic...at>>some point with enough practice I might be able to
crack the finals in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">FAI at the NATS, but I'm smart enough to know that realistically
winning FAI isnt going to happen. I would also argue that the guys
that have been flying masters for years, just raise the bar. I
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->know
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">in different areas I've flown around the country, these are the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->guys
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that make guys fly better. Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly
Masters...you'll definitely get better. 6 of the top 10 at the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->NATS
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">were D6. The means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in
what is probably top to bottom the most competitive class have
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">trouble>>getting wood at a local contest. I can promise you
though, the guys
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that fly here have greatly
improved their flying than they would have in other parts of the
country. Glen has set the bar here for a while, and I know the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">other>>guys are pushing to catch him, and if you look now at local
contest>>scores, it is getting closer. At any given time down
here in D6, I'd
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">say 6 or 7 guys can take a round in masters. Now that makes it
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">fun. I
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">know when I was flying in D4 last year. Every contest I went
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to, was
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Verne K, and Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights
every flight and this makes you a better pilot. I think you should
try moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->you
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">are the following year. I bet you start moving up and before
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">you know
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">it you would be right there in the mix. This is a competitive
activity and the only way you improve is flying against people
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">who are
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">better than you.
Arch
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gayer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"><jgghome@comcast.net></a>
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->selection?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">To: NSRCA Mailing List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ron,
I take exception to those rules. There should be only one
destination
class. Why shouldn't there be a mandatory move from Masters to
F3A? They
are just two patterns with a natural progression as there is
between
Advanced and Masters.
Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, not a rules violation.
john
Ron Van Putte wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">move
>from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be "parkers" or
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"sandbaggers"?
Ron Van Putte
On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">how about changing the AMA advancemant rule and keep it very
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">simple?>> Your first contest of the year will determine your class
for the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">year. You may go up one class at any time during the year but
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">may not
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">go back down during the year. At the start of the next year you
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">may
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">drop back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">a class.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This is simple enough that your fellow competitiors will know
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">if you
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">are following the rules. It will also be up to your fellow
competitiors to insure that you are not sandbagging.
I also feel strongly that sandbagging in Masters should not be
allowed. If you disregard Sportsman, then half of the classes
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">allow
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">parking. Obviously, F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">reason
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">pilot of
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">somewhat advanced years, I have very little interest in moving
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Masters in order to spend the rest of my pattern years trying
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">break 900 against the parkers.
I fail to see the logic in having two destination classes.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Shouldn't
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">we all aspire to progress to FAI? The current Masters schedule
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">designed as a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way.
John Gayer
NSRCA 632
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There was a proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">had not
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">attained the skills required for the higher class. I
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">personally
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">think it is a good idea and I also see no need for the point
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">system
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">like someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">solicit
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Earl and four other guys his size to take him behind the barn
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">and
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">pressure is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">all the control we need.
I think this is worth a try.
For those who have the ability and desire to achieve a spot at
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">top I don't see that we have a problem.
Buddy
-------------------------------------------------------------
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">---------
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/">http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/</a>?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.>>>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-------------------------------------------------------------
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">---
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--------
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<pre wrap="">---
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
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