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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Everything you state is correct except for one
thing, a double immelman can only have horizontal lines as long as the diameter
of the half loops. To have the inverted section run the length of the box
would make some seriously tall half loops.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fhhuber@clearwire.net href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">Fred
Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 7:36
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Natural
Progression</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I think that Sportsman DOES have scored turnarounds... the
half Cuban... half reverse... stall turn... Split S... double-immelman
without rolls (Essentially can be a half loop at each end of the box
with a long inverted ... )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Just because there are 2 UNJUDGED turn around manevers of
the pilot's choice... does not make it "no turn around"</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au
href="mailto:Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au">Koenig, Tom</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 7:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Natural
Progression</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Claude and all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>We have four classes: </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Sportsman ( no turn around) entry level</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Advanced ( turnaround)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Expert ( feeder to FAI)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>FAI</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>We probably have quite a jump from Advanced to Expert as
expert is a watered down FAI. Our National average is derived from FAI
class only. The promotional values for the relevant classes are simply
a percentage value of that National average. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Sportsman is aimed at the 'club' flyer, and even a decent
trainer will fly it no problem. Presently, I could not really say wether it
is more challenging or not than what you fly in the US. We too have our
organisational, cultural challenges!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>As I stated yesterday, we are currently sorting out the new
schedules for 09. We are dropping the judging of landing and takeoffs in all
classes-as it no longer bears relevance to the FAI
schedules.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>I guess, we have a Global outlook and do what we can to play
with, and remain relevant with what the rest of the world is
doing?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Its a tough one!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=864385423-14082007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Fred
Huber<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 15 August 2007 9:52 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Natural
Progression<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>make the lower classes too chanllenging... and you don't
get new competitors.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Don't go there... </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cweimer@tconl.com href="mailto:cweimer@tconl.com">Claude
Weimer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tom, what are the
lower classes like in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region>? Some time ago I saw
schedules from another country and I thought they were more challenging
that what we fly in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>. I personally think our
lower classes do not challenge our newer
flyers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks, Claude.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Koenig, Tom<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:59
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Natural Progression</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Interesting
point Dave,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">During recent
times in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region>, we have undergone
some 'robust' discussion, with reference to the flying of
only the P schedule at local contests.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Until
recently, we have always flown the P on Saturdays and finished with two
F's on Sunday ( FAI class). But the fact remained, that at world champs,
we never managed to get an Aussie into the finals. We got close ( I think
Peter Goldsmith just missed the cut once). The fact remains we need to get
to finals first! Its not that we cant fly the finals, infact, once there,
our top pilots could easily mix it with the best. But at a worlds, the
competition in the pre-lims is so tight , that you really have to be on
the top of your game. Being well known, is also a major factor at these
international events,and lets face it, Aussie pattern fliers don't really
get much press!!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">The
funny thing is, and it remains unexplainable to me, is that it appears
that the top fliers just barely do 'enough' to get over the line during
the pre-lims at a Worlds. It seems, the competition really only starts
after the cut?? Freaks???? Possibly.....maybe I should take up R/C
Submarines and not bother!!!????</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">So.....
our national interest is getting the team into the finals at a W/C
first-this is why we have now adopted to fly only the P schedule at local
contests. The aim being to improve our overall 'P' performance. ( or
should I say the three P's?? <G>)</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Granted
in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> you do not suffer the same
problems as we do. You guys have the 'Star' fliers and an enormous depth
of field. But be aware that you could possibly dilute the quality of
flying for the P schedule, by doing to much F at the local level. My
national pride hopes that you guys do, because then we might have a
chance<VBG></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Maybe
none of this is an issue in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>? Certainly to us mere
mortals down here, the top fliers you fellows have in the
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> , you included :), are
more or less freaks who could fly anything,
anytime!!!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">As I
recall, the whole intent of the F schedule was to sort out the sheep from
the goats at the W/C's only-it was never intended for use at local levels(
but nothing stops you from doing so)</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Good
luck with it chaps...but yes, our whole National focus is to do well at
the W/C. It seems the only real way to get our hands into the cookie
jar!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Tom</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> -----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dave
Lockhart<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday,
15 August 2007 7:59 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Earl,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think we'd
agree that the survey needs to be completed more frequently? I can't
remember exactly when the last one was completed - I do know it is a lot
of work assembling it, compiling the results, and evaluating the
results.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For F3A - is the
fallacy that needs to be debunked -<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a) Most
will never be able to competently fly F3A?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">b) Most
will never be competitive in F3A?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't think
they are the same thing. I do believe that there is a substantial
number of guys that do not want to fly F3A because they do not want to (or
have the time to) be competent flying 2 schedules.
Competently flying 2 schedules (at the current Masters/PO7 level) is far
more difficult task than being competent at one schedule - especially
looking at F09 and F11 - I bring this up because there has also been a
recent trend for more "F" being flown at local contests (and the last 2
years at the NATs for rounds 5 and 6 in the
prelims).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Earl Haury<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:32
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You make a very good point in
that the NSRCA survey is a very good tool for taking the pulse of the
pattern community. Certainly the majority should prevail, but it's also
good to explore new ideas and rethink old ones with the goal of increasing
the satisfied majority. I think that's what Tim and I've tried to
input to this thread. I have no desire to dictate the direction of
Masters, any changes should be generated from within. I do find a
perception that F3A is somehow unattainable for most and feel that's just
a self fulfilling fallacy that could stand some
debunking.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Earl</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=davel322@comcast.net href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">Dave
Lockhart</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:05 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Natural
Progression<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tim,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think you've
made a lot of good points. I think some of the answers to your
questions regarding the current/future status of Masters can be taken
from the last NSRCA survey - the direction of Masters has pretty closely
followed the survey results - in that it is distinct from F3A and the
difficulty level is slightly less than F3A (which fluctuates, granted)
in that some maneuvers are found in Masters (ie, integrated loop/roll
figures).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The gap between
classes will always remain a constant debate - and I think a point that
has been posted on this list many times (and seemingly gets forgotten)
is that pilots can practice for a new class by flying the new class
prior to entering a contest in that new class. If we had 10
classes between Sportsman and Intermediate, the gaps between the classes
would be very small. I think the driving factor for the number of
classes currently is the current participant level will not consistently
sustain more classes. Yes, reintroduction of Expert might allow
Masters to be a more difficult class, but if pilots really wanted a more
difficult class (or higher level of competition), they have the option
now of flying F3A. I think Masters is the largest class across the
country because a lot of guys are happy with it exactly as it
is.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>twtaylor<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:15
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [NSRCA-discussion] Natural
Progression</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In an effort to break apart
the two subjects we've been talking about the last few days I offer the
following.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Since the dawn of man we've
had a competitive side (At least that's what RVP told me he was there
after all). Some are more competitive than others and that's fine. Since
our sport has developed over the years we've made major changes along
with many minor ones. Given man's thirst for ever increasing challenge
we've come from old school pattern through what seemed like a decade
fight over going to turn around. We lost a fair amount of pilots during
that time yet the sport survived. We picked up some new pilots and
that's a good thing. Then the TOC came along to decide the best of the
best. It started with Pattern planes, and then someone decided to add a
10% bonus for using a scale airplane. From that day forward Pattern was
divided and IMAC was born. Many of our former pattern fliers joined the
IMAC ranks. I don't pretend to know why, they just did. That diluted
Pattern and no longer did we see contests with 50+ contestants. I for
one am glad we don't get 50 plus pilots anymore as that creates a
nightmare contest. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I returned to Pattern
after a decade lay off and can honestly say the level of competition,
airframes, engines, and radios has increased at an exponential rate. I
think the current fliers are more dedicated to the sport than ever. The
flying skills across the board have come up in every class by an order
of magnitude larger than I ever thought possible. I asked myself why
this was.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> After thinking for a
year or more and talking with those that have been in the trenches since
going to turn around I've formed an opinion about why. Right or wrong
here it is.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> FAI drives everything
we do. Don't think so? Let me
explain.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> The guys at the top
of the game have nowhere to go, FAI is it. To keep those guys interested
and to separate the players from the wannabe's they had to make the
sequence progressively harder. Those that won all the time can easily
become bored and move on to something else. For a case in point, one
only needs to look at the amount of top pattern fliers that jumped ship
to IMAC.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Let's look at our
sport from top to bottom. We've made FAI so difficult to keep the top
guys happy we've out stripped the ability, or perceived ability, of
masses to fly that class. Some might say this is a good thing. Harder
keeps the numbers low and from top to bottom a better overall
flier.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Masters became the
top class for guys that didn't think they could, or just didn't want to
fly FAI, yet masters flew the old FAI schedule for a time. So now
we had to make Masters hard enough to keep those pilots happy and
interested. Seems we did the exact same thing for Masters that we did
for FAI.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Now were on the
classes that we hope will lead fliers into the upper classes through a
natural progression. Let's look back a few years and see what we really
did. We've made every class with the exception of the lowest class
harder. I don't see any real problem with that. If we look back at what
FAI flew the first year, that schedule isn't any harder than the current
Advance schedule.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> So what does that
tell us? It tells me the level of flying has moved up by leaps and
bounds. I think it's a good thing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> The question I
have is this. Are we to continue to develop two distinct top classes
when they should or could be channeled into one? Are we so afraid of
what FAI flies that many master pilots are just happy to remain in
Masters and never try FAI? If so then this discussion is a moot one. Is
the jump from Advance to Masters not as hard? Does it not require the
same level of dedication to join the ranks of the cream of the crop? If
you're not willing to put forth the effort to try to crawl your way to
the top, then like me, you'll end up being just a guy out having fun.
Nothing wrong with that either. A zero in FAI is the same as a
Zero in Masters.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tim<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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