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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Tom is also describing the classes and
sequences from down under in the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">land</st1:PlaceType>
of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">OZ</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Dowayne<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ken Thompson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 14, 2007
8:46 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Everything you state is correct except for one thing, a
double immelman can only have horizontal lines as long as the diameter of the
half loops. To have the inverted section run the length of the box would
make some seriously tall half loops.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net" title="fhhuber@clearwire.net">Fred Huber</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
14, 2007 7:36 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Natural Progression<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I think that Sportsman DOES have scored turnarounds... the half
Cuban... half reverse... stall turn... Split S... double-immelman without
rolls (Essentially can be a half loop at each end of the box with a long
inverted ... )</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Just because there are 2 UNJUDGED turn around manevers of the pilot's
choice... does not make it "no turn around"</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au" title="Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au">Koenig,
Tom</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
14, 2007 7:07 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Natural Progression<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Claude and all,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>We have four
classes: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Sportsman ( no
turn around) entry level</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Advanced (
turnaround)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Expert ( feeder
to FAI)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>FAI</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>We probably
have quite a jump from Advanced to Expert as expert is a watered down FAI.
Our National average is derived from FAI class only. The promotional values
for the relevant classes are simply a percentage value of that National
average. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Sportsman is
aimed at the 'club' flyer, and even a decent trainer will fly it no problem.
Presently, I could not really say wether it is more challenging or not than
what you fly in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
We too have our organisational, cultural challenges!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>As I stated
yesterday, we are currently sorting out the new schedules for 09. We are
dropping the judging of landing and takeoffs in all classes-as it no longer
bears relevance to the FAI schedules.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>I guess, we
have a Global outlook and do what we can to play with, and remain relevant
with what the rest of the world is doing?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Its a tough
one!!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Tom</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Fred Huber<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 15 August 2007
9:52 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>make the lower classes too chanllenging... and you don't get new
competitors.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Don't go there... </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:cweimer@tconl.com" title="cweimer@tconl.com">Claude Weimer</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
14, 2007 6:20 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Natural Progression<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tom, what are the lower classes like in <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region></st1:place>?
Some time ago I saw schedules from another country and I thought they were more
challenging that what we fly in the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on">US</st1:country-region></st1:place>. I personally think our lower
classes do not challenge our newer flyers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks, Claude. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Koenig, Tom<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 14, 2007
5:59 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Interesting
point Dave,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>During recent
times in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region></st1:place>,
we have undergone some 'robust' discussion, with reference to the flying
of only the P schedule at local contests.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Until recently,
we have always flown the P on Saturdays and finished with two F's on Sunday (
FAI class). But the fact remained, that at world champs, we never managed to
get an Aussie into the finals. We got close ( I think Peter Goldsmith just
missed the cut once). The fact remains we need to get to finals first! Its not
that we cant fly the finals, infact, once there, our top pilots could easily
mix it with the best. But at a worlds, the competition in the pre-lims is so
tight , that you really have to be on the top of your game. Being well known,
is also a major factor at these international events,and lets face it, Aussie
pattern fliers don't really get much press!!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>The funny thing
is, and it remains unexplainable to me, is that it appears that the top fliers
just barely do 'enough' to get over the line during the pre-lims at a Worlds.
It seems, the competition really only starts after the cut?? Freaks????
Possibly.....maybe I should take up R/C Submarines and not bother!!!????</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>So..... our
national interest is getting the team into the finals at a W/C first-this
is why we have now adopted to fly only the P schedule at local contests. The
aim being to improve our overall 'P' performance. ( or should I say the three
P's?? <G>)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Granted in the <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region></st1:place> you
do not suffer the same problems as we do. You guys have the 'Star' fliers and
an enormous depth of field. But be aware that you could possibly dilute the
quality of flying for the P schedule, by doing to much F at the local level. My
national pride hopes that you guys do, because then we might have a
chance<VBG></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Maybe none of
this is an issue in the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region></st1:place>?
Certainly to us mere mortals down here, the top fliers you fellows have in the <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region></st1:place> ,
you included :), are more or less freaks who could fly anything, anytime!!!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>As I recall,
the whole intent of the F schedule was to sort out the sheep from the goats at
the W/C's only-it was never intended for use at local levels( but nothing stops
you from doing so)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Good luck with
it chaps...but yes, our whole National focus is to do well at the W/C. It seems
the only real way to get our hands into the cookie jar!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>Tom</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> -----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Lockhart<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 15 August 2007
7:59 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Earl,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think we'd agree that the survey needs
to be completed more frequently? I can't remember exactly when the last
one was completed - I do know it is a lot of work assembling it, compiling the
results, and evaluating the results.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For F3A - is the fallacy that needs to be
debunked -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>a) Most will never be able to
competently fly F3A?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>b) Most will never be competitive in
F3A?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don't think they are the same
thing. I do believe that there is a substantial number of guys that do
not want to fly F3A because they do not want to (or have the time to) be
competent flying 2 schedules. Competently flying 2 schedules
(at the current Masters/PO7 level) is far more difficult task than being
competent at one schedule - especially looking at F09 and F11 - I bring this up
because there has also been a recent trend for more "F" being flown
at local contests (and the last 2 years at the NATs for rounds 5 and 6 in the
prelims).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Earl Haury<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 14, 2007
9:32 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dave</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>You make a very good point in that the NSRCA survey is a
very good tool for taking the pulse of the pattern community. Certainly the
majority should prevail, but it's also good to explore new ideas and rethink
old ones with the goal of increasing the satisfied majority. I think that's
what Tim and I've tried to input to this thread. I have no desire to dictate
the direction of Masters, any changes should be generated from within. I
do find a perception that F3A is somehow unattainable for most and feel that's
just a self fulfilling fallacy that could stand some debunking.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Earl</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net" title="davel322@comcast.net">Dave Lockhart</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
14, 2007 8:05 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Natural Progression<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think you've made a lot of good
points. I think some of the answers to your questions regarding the
current/future status of Masters can be taken from the last NSRCA survey - the
direction of Masters has pretty closely followed the survey results - in that
it is distinct from F3A and the difficulty level is slightly less than F3A
(which fluctuates, granted) in that some maneuvers are found in Masters (ie,
integrated loop/roll figures).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The gap between classes will always remain
a constant debate - and I think a point that has been posted on this list many
times (and seemingly gets forgotten) is that pilots can practice for a new
class by flying the new class prior to entering a contest in that new class.
If we had 10 classes between Sportsman and Intermediate, the gaps between the
classes would be very small. I think the driving factor for the number of
classes currently is the current participant level will not consistently
sustain more classes. Yes, reintroduction of Expert might allow Masters
to be a more difficult class, but if pilots really wanted a more difficult
class (or higher level of competition), they have the option now of flying
F3A. I think Masters is the largest class across the country because a
lot of guys are happy with it exactly as it is.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>twtaylor<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 14, 2007
8:15 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Natural Progression</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In an effort to break apart the two subjects we've been
talking about the last few days I offer the following.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Since the dawn of man we've had a competitive side (At least
that's what RVP told me he was there after all). Some are more competitive than
others and that's fine. Since our sport has developed over the years we've made
major changes along with many minor ones. Given man's thirst for ever
increasing challenge we've come from old school pattern through what seemed
like a decade fight over going to turn around. We lost a fair amount of pilots
during that time yet the sport survived. We picked up some new pilots and
that's a good thing. Then the TOC came along to decide the best of the best. It
started with Pattern planes, and then someone decided to add a 10% bonus for
using a scale airplane. From that day forward Pattern was divided and IMAC was
born. Many of our former pattern fliers joined the IMAC ranks. I don't pretend
to know why, they just did. That diluted Pattern and no longer did we see
contests with 50+ contestants. I for one am glad we don't get 50 plus pilots
anymore as that creates a nightmare contest. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I returned to Pattern after a decade lay off and can
honestly say the level of competition, airframes, engines, and radios has
increased at an exponential rate. I think the current fliers are more dedicated
to the sport than ever. The flying skills across the board have come up in
every class by an order of magnitude larger than I ever thought possible. I
asked myself why this was.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> After thinking for a year or more and talking with
those that have been in the trenches since going to turn around I've formed an
opinion about why. Right or wrong here it is.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> FAI drives everything we do. Don't think so?
Let me explain.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> The guys at the top of the game have nowhere to go,
FAI is it. To keep those guys interested and to separate the players from the
wannabe's they had to make the sequence progressively harder. Those that won
all the time can easily become bored and move on to something else. For a case
in point, one only needs to look at the amount of top pattern fliers that
jumped ship to IMAC.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Let's look at our sport from top to bottom. We've
made FAI so difficult to keep the top guys happy we've out stripped the
ability, or perceived ability, of masses to fly that class. Some might say this
is a good thing. Harder keeps the numbers low and from top to bottom a better
overall flier.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Masters became the top class for guys that didn't
think they could, or just didn't want to fly FAI, yet masters flew the old FAI
schedule for a time. So now we had to make Masters hard enough to keep
those pilots happy and interested. Seems we did the exact same thing for
Masters that we did for FAI.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Now were on the classes that we hope will lead fliers
into the upper classes through a natural progression. Let's look back a few
years and see what we really did. We've made every class with the exception of
the lowest class harder. I don't see any real problem with that. If we look
back at what FAI flew the first year, that schedule isn't any harder than the
current Advance schedule.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> So what does that tell us? It tells me the level of
flying has moved up by leaps and bounds. I think it's a good thing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> The question I have is this. Are we to continue
to develop two distinct top classes when they should or could be channeled into
one? Are we so afraid of what FAI flies that many master pilots are just happy
to remain in Masters and never try FAI? If so then this discussion is a moot
one. Is the jump from Advance to Masters not as hard? Does it not require the
same level of dedication to join the ranks of the cream of the crop? If you're
not willing to put forth the effort to try to crawl your way to the top, then
like me, you'll end up being just a guy out having fun. Nothing wrong
with that either. A zero in FAI is the same as a Zero in Masters.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Tim<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition. <br>
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19
PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition. <br>
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19
PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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