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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I really don’t think getting people
to advance in the system is a problem for pattern. Nor is it
unfair. The system must represent a fair deal for the majority. Referencing
Jon L. since he has posted on this thread – Jon is the “pattern-animal”
for D3 and hit every contest last year. He is a very good pilot and
growing in skill, but his level of participation and attendance far exceeds the
average pattern guy (including myself right now). However in 2002 I think
I attended 14 contests (D7) and in 2003 I attended 12 contests (D7).
People move up basically because they want to challenge them selves more.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Instead of looking at the system as a way
to ensure people advance, look at it as a way to ensure the “competitor-group”
in each class is appropriately balanced. By in large our system works
pretty good. At the awards ceremony’s, when people get tired of the
same guy winning, or someone winning that is exhibiting an exceptional level of
skill versus that competitor group, guys start chanting ‘move-up’
(or move-away in some cases, FAI </span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> ). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Masters class is a eclectic group of
flyers that include: 1. Talent moving through on the way to FAI, 2. Talented
Pilots on the upper end of the class and whose true potential may be limited by
practice time, etc., 3. Appropriately classed pilots 4, Pilots
moving from Advanced into Masters and still on the learning curve, and 5., “long-timers”
in the class who are there for all kinds of various reasons, but whose flying
is maybe 200 points lower than the round winners or so. I don’t
think it will be at all possible to create a sequence that is going to make
everybody happy given the diversity off this class. However, a difficulty
level slightly less that FAI is right to my thinking. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If anyone has a heart-burn for being stuck
in Masters, or any class for that matter, I‘m sure it would take nothing
but a letter to the District VP asking to move down in a class if they feel
they are no longer appropriately classed, or feel that moving up was a
mistake. People like being in Masters for all kinds of
reasons: Challenge, Mystique, experience, pride, etc. However, it
is fun to be in the hunt too and it is not wrong for guys to shuffle classes
every once in a while to make it more of an enriching (fun) experience –
that is why we do this right? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:navy'>Just to pop
in a point of difference between IMAC and Pattern – Pattern is obviously
top heavy with Masters being the largest class typically. IMAC has the
opposite problem, with guys chcosing to stay in Sportsman or
Intermediate. Many reasons are given for this, but over two seasons it is
pretty obvious to me that there are some folks abusing that system a bit as
they demonstrate the talent to fly a higher class (to my opinion). In
pattern, folks generally choose to move up long before they would have poitned
out. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=2 color=navy
face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";
color:navy'>Jim</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=2 color=navy
face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";
color:navy'> W.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>twtaylor<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 14, 2007
3:21 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Points system</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here’s an Idea I got when I read
RVP’s post.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What if we gave the lower classes 200
points then 300 in advance then 400 to masters. Start deducting from there and
when you get to Zero you move up? Wouldn’t this give the guys that
don’t fly often or against many the time to hone their skills before
moving up?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pros Cons?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Richards<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 14, 2007
2:36 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Points system</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>If a person finished 1st or 2nd at every contest, and there were only 3
people in the class, there is not as much of a need for this person to advance.
OTOH, if this person consistently finished 1st out of 20, I'd say it is time
for this person to move up. Isn't that the way the point system is structured
now?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Bob R.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Ken Thompson
<mrandmrst@comcast.net></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point system or not, if someone is finishing in the
top 1 or 2 at every local event, it's time to move up. And like
you said, the heckling would be unbearable ;-)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Ken</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" title="atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">Mark
Atwood</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
14, 2007 11:13 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Points system<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>You must have missed my earlier post...copied here...<br>
<br>
<br>
Why do we have one? (point system)<br>
<br>
Not to play devils advocate but do we really have that many people trying to
“cheat” to take home an extra plaque? Yeah, some people hang
around a class a little longer than others, but I don’t ever recall
someone staying beyond the point where peer pressure failed, and we had to rely
on an un-enforced point system to get the job done.<br>
<br>
I mean lets face it...if there’s a guy just tearing up the advanced
circuit...winning everything in his path, A) he’s going to get pretty
bored with that at some point B) he’s going to get heckled to DEATH at
some point from the Master’s guys calling him chicken since he’s
clearly afraid to compete against kids his own size :) and C) and this is
a big “C”... Who cares?? If I’m flying Advanced
against him and continually having my A$$ handed to me...then apparently
there’s room for my flying to improve. I can choose to improve it
staying in Advanced until either the aforementioned sandbagger moves up and I
can claim victory with my inferior flying against now inferior competition, OR
I can choose to bypass all together and move to Masters and get a new challenge
having never won the pinnacle of the previous class, but feeling confident in
my own abilities.<br>
<br>
MORE importantly...if I fly for fun? Which I really think about 50% of
the flyers in pattern do, then I can hang at whatever level challenges me,
provides me with the best “reward” level for my time and
investment, and maximize my “fun”. <br>
<br>
I think the “point” system should be little more than a guideline
for the avid competitor who’s goal is to move through the classes, gain
proficiency, and who’s target is winning in FAI. It’s a
guideline to know when it’s maybe time to move up, to prevent moving too
early, and yet stay on a good course for becoming the best.<br>
<br>
For the rest, I think it’s a non issue.<br>
<br>
I’m an avid golfer...I suck, but I’m avid. My handicap says I
should be playing from the blue tees on most courses... But on a given
day, I’d much rather go out and shoot an 82 from the whites, than post an
86 from the Blues. Just my preference...it’s more fun.
<br>
<br>
My .02<br>
<br>
-Mark<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><br>
<br>
On 8/14/07 11:16 AM, "twtaylor" <twtaylor@ftc-i.net> wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Just to break this issue out to a
thread of it’s own. Maybe we can keep this one on topic.<br>
<br>
Any ideas on a better system?</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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