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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>and... you ignored everthing in my
post...</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne Koester</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed
Masters Sequence for 2009/2010</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Fred,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A half cuban starts with a half loop, then a 45 down
line. If you wait until you're near the end of the box to pull into the half
loop, the back tangent of the loop will be way out of the box. Compounding the
problem is the fact that it calls for two of a two point roll which must be
centered on the 45 downline. We currently do the same maneuver in the existing
Masters schedule. If you draw an honest 45 degree line out of the half loop,
you've got to make sure the half loop is big enough to create a 45 degree
downline long enough to accommodate the 2 half rolls or you'll end up very low
and very uncomfortable and the judges will have a hard time seeing the bottom
of the next maneuver. My experience with the current schedule says that this
maneuver uses roughly 1/4 of the box. Waiting for a quarter of the box prior
to the start of the 8 point so it will be centered means you're squeezing an 8
point roll into roughly 1/2 of the box, give or take a little. I'm sure it's
possible, but it'll be fast and ugly and that's under ideal conditions. Show
me a previous schedule in FAI that didn't use tall, vertically-oriented
maneuvers on both ends of an 8 point, and I'll be quiet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fhhuber@clearwire.net href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">Fred
Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:45
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>Its a half cuban (not reversed...)
you can be near end of box before the pull... (1 large loop radius from
end)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>If its a reverse... THEN its
definitely a squeese for the 8 point. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>This "approach" might have a point
or two of the 8 point under the 45 drawn in the half cuban... But it
lets you use ALMOST 1/2 a box for the 1/2 cuban... You can size the
5/8 loop and time the 2/2 to end up at a higher or lower
altitude.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>The question then becomes.... is it
a downgrade to have the maneuvers come out that way? There can easilly
be a straight segment after the 8th point before the pull and have the
result I described.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>Line lengths and loop radius (where
not required to be equal to a different length/radius) are not
downgrades....</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne
Koester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Rex,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The half cuban needs to be fairly large to
accommodate the 2/2 pt roll on the 45 degree downline at the end of it.
Make it too small and you'll either be right on the deck for the start of
the next maneuver or worse. It's going to take about 1/4 of the box to do
it right. If you want to center the 8 point roll right before it, that
means you need to fly 1/4 of the way into the box before you start the 8
point roll. It's just a bad combination of maneuvers that won't work well
together in the confines of the box. I'm sure that's why FAI vertically
tall and low box use maneuvers on each end of the 8 point roll in the P07
schedule. I like the schedule too, I just want to give the 8 point the
room it needs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Verne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=trexlesh@msn.com href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com">Rex LESHER</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:14
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!--[gte IE 5]><?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
<DIV>
<DIV>Derek</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I like the Proposed sequence the best... I probably
won't be flying it, but I will be judging it. I personally
don't think having </DIV>
<DIV>the half cuban after the 8 point is that big of deal. It just
forces the pilot to be in the proper position to execute that string of
</DIV>
<DIV>three manuevers. As we all know, Positioning is
everything... The down humpty and the inverted 4 point roll is a
nice variation of revisited manuevers. Personally, I think
the proposed sequence flows a little better than the "A" sequence.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rex</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">Derek Koopowitz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing
List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 25, 2007
8:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Over the past couple of months we (the
NSRCA board) have received a number of comments about the Masters
sequence that was selected in 2005. We heard that the sequence
had too many snaps, turnaround maneuvers did not allow positioning of
the plane (in or out) after the 5th maneuver, and that the difficulty
level from Advanced to Masters was further increased. There was
also an error in the schedule in that one would come out of the Double
Immelman (#10) inverted and head into the Humpty Bump (pull-push-pull)
and head into the ground based on the description. The Masters
schedule was published in the July 2005 issue of the K-Factor (Option
A on page 25) - in order to correct the error, maneuver #9 was modifed
to a 1/2 Square Loop with 1/2 Roll Down instead of the 1/2 Square Loop
with 2/2 Pt Roll Down.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>The board felt that the original Masters
sequence committee should revisit the schedule to look it over and
perhaps make modifications. The original committee was Troy
Newman (chair), Ed Alt, Dave Lockhart, Joe Lachoswki, Arch Stafford
and Bob Pastorello. Bob dropped out since he no longer flies
pattern. Troy and the team started working on it but Troy
couldn't devote 100% of his time to it due to the Nats approaching and
his commitment to trying to make the US team. Dave, Ed, Joe and
Arch worked the sequence but decided that it would take too much
modification to correct. Instead they came up with a revised
schedule that the board felt was a worthy replacement. The board
would like to submit this schedule to the Contest Board to be
considered as a replacement for the original schedule.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>What do we need from everyone? We'd
like to get your opinion on the sequence that was selected in 2005 and
the new schedule that was created by the sequence committee to address
the issues that were raised by a number of pilots.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here is the sequence that was
selected:</FONT> </P>
<P align=center> <U><B> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>2009 Masters 404 Option
A
<BR>
</FONT></B></U><B> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>KF <BR></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>1 Takeoff
Sequence
1 <BR>2
Stall Turn, 1-1/4 Roll Up, 1-1/4 Positive Snap
down
5 <BR>3
Top-Hat with 1/4 Rolls, Exit
INV
2 <BR>4
Cuban 8 with Full Rolls, Exit INV
4 <BR>5
Humpty Bump, with options (1/2's or 1/4's up and Down to Exit
Upright)
2 <BR>6
Avalanche, 1-1/2 snap roll, Exit INV
4 <BR>7
1/2 Square Loop on Corner (1/2 Diamond Loop)
2 <BR>8
Eight-Sided Outside Loop from top
4 <BR>9
1/2 Square Loop, 1/2pt Roll
down
2 <BR>10
Double Immelman, Full Rolls
4 <BR>11
Humpty Bump (pull-push-pull), Full Roll up, 1/2 Roll
down
3 <BR>12
8pt Roll
4 <BR>13
Stall Turn, Full Roll up
2 <BR>14
Two Loops with 1/2 Rolls on top
4 <BR>15
1/2 Reverse Cuban 8 with 2/4pt Roll up
2 <BR>16
Two 2/2pt Rolls Reversed
4 <BR>17
Immelman Turn
2 <BR>18
45 degree down, 1-1/2 Positive Snap, Exit INV
3 <BR>19
1/2 Cuban 8, Exit INV
2 <BR>20
Triangle Loop with Snap Roll on top, Exit INV
4 <BR>21
1/2 Square Loop
1 <BR>22
Two 2-turn spins, Reversed
4 <BR>23
Landing
1 <BR>
Total 66 <BR></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here is the new sequence that was created
by the sequence committee:</FONT> </P>
<P> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Proposed 2009-2010 Masters Sequence</FONT>
<BR>
<BR><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>No.</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>Kf</FONT> <BR>
<BR><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>1</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Takeoff</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>1</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Half Clover , with 2/4 pt roll up, 1/2 roll
down</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>3</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Humpty bump, 2/4 pt. roll
up</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Eight point
roll</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(D)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>5</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>1/2 Cuban 8, 2/2 pt.
Roll</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>6</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Avalanche with 1-1/2 snap, INV entry (from
bottom)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>7</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Half square loop on corner w/ 1/2 rolls</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>8</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Eight sided loop from top, INV
entry</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(D)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>9</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Reverse Humpty Bump w/Options from top(1/2 or 1/4
rolls up and down)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>3</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>10</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>45 degree down with 1-1/2 snap
roll</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>3</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>11</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Stall turn, half rolls, INV
entry</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>12</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Four point roll, INV
entry</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(D)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>13</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Humpty Bump(push,pull,pull), 2/4 pt. Roll Up, 1/2
Roll Down, INV entry</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>3</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>14</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Figure-M , with 3/4
Rolls</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>5</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>15</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Top Hat w/ 1/4 Rolls</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>16</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Two 2/2 pt. rolls
reversed</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(D)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>4</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>17</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Immelmann Turn</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>18</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Hour Glass( MID entry, top first) 2/4 pt roll
down</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>5</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>19</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Figure 9 from middle (INV entry, top
first)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>1</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>20</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Double Immelmann with Full
Rolls</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>(D)</FONT>
<FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>3</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>21</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Half Square Loop with 2/2 pt. roll
up</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(T)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>2</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>22</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>2-1/2 Turn Spin, INV entry, upright
exit</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>3</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>23</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>Landing</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>(U)</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000
size=2>1</FONT> <BR>
<BR>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>TOTAL</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>66</FONT> <BR></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Hopefully the above is legible… please
let me know your thoughts.</FONT>
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