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<title>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree there is not any commentary in the
current FAI book about a noise exemption for electrics. And while I don’t
have the old or new book in front of me at the moment, I believe in the not too
distant past, there was a noise exemption for electrics in the “general”
section of the FAI book (which contains rules/guidance/structure applicable to
all FAI events). However, when the general section and an event specific
section conflicted, my understanding is that priority is given to the event
specific section.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree with Mark’s comments about
noise – on our pattern models, tipspeed is usually the largest culprit,
and prop noise can certainly be amplified by minimal prop clearance. In
my situation, I did make some mods prior the NATs to the Prestige with the Neu
motor to knock the db down from 95 to 93db, and the A60 in the other Prestige was
typically low 90s (variable depending on temp of lipos which affects prop RPM).
The setups that I am running are atypical for electric – 18” props
at relatively high RPM. The 18x13PN on the Neu was probably @ 7700 when
it flunked noise, and the same 18x13PN was probably @ 7500 on the A60 when it
registered 94 db (opposed to low 90s at home). I suspect the “added”
noise of the Neu motor is in part from the added RPM – the 6.7:1
planetary gears on the Neu are seeing ~52,000 RPM from the motor, whereas the typical
13/14XL Hacker setup is only seeing ~42,000 RPM from the motor shaft.
More stuff to play with and figure out!!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Atwood<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 23, 2007 1:23
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Nats Final Scores</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>I’m sure there WAS an
exemption...it was somewhere in the general guidelines though, NOT specific to
pattern. It simply said that Electric models didn’t have to be
checked for noise. But we looked through the entire rulebook almost cover
to cover and it’s not there. I’m guessing it was removed from
the general area and nobody paid any attention.<br>
<br>
If someone has an old rule book and can find the section, and compare it to the
new one, it would be interesting to see. Rather moot now though.<br>
<br>
It certainly makes sense that electrics should have to comply though, and
I’m sure Dave L. had intended too, and was surprised that he
wasn’t. One of the issues seems to be ground clearance.
The large props are so close to the pavement that it seems to almost
amplify the sound. Raising the airplane up even an inch or two seems to
have an effect on the Db meter. Never thought that longer landing gear
would be a component of noise reduction.<br>
<br>
-M<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/23/07 12:30 PM, "John Ferrell" <johnferrell@earthlink.net>
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I must have missed a rule change. FAI has been providing an
exemption for electrics and noise checks in the past.<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
"Life is easier if you learn to plow <br>
around the stumps"<br>
<a href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Gray E Fowler <a
href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com"><mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com></a>
<br>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a>
<br>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 23, 2007 11:37
AM<br>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Nats Final Scores<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike <br>
<br>
Were sound problems big props or gearboxes making noise? <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apetures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><b><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold'>"Michael Wickizer"
<mwickizer@msn.com></span></font></b><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><font
size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>07/23/2007
10:17 AM</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><font size=1
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>Please respond
to<br>
NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><font size=1
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>To </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><font size=1
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>cc </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><font size=1
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>Subject </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Thanks Don,<br>
<br>
I found it interesting that the only sound check problems were with the <br>
electrics. I guess the electric guys kinda took it for granted, as
I did, <br>
had me wondering for awhile.<br>
<br>
<br>
>From: tocdon@netscape.net<br>
>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
>Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:04:19 -0400<br>
><br>
><br>
>Mike.? My congrats to Brett on his phenomenal finish.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>I was running 20% nitro along with the restrictor from Central
Hobbies on <br>
>the 170 DZ.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>All the best,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>Don Szczur<br>
><br>
><br>
>-----Original Message-----<br>
>From: Michael Wickizer <mwickizer@msn.com><br>
>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>Sent: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 9:39 pm<br>
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>I believe it was Cool Power 30% heli fuel pretty much across the
board.<br>
><br>
><br>
> >From: Bob Kane <getterflash@yahoo.com><br>
> >Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
> >To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
> >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT)<br>
> ><br>
> >Anybody know what fuel the DZ guys are using?<br>
> ><br>
> >Bob Kane<br>
> >getterflash@yahoo.com<br>
> ><br>
> >----- Original Message ----<br>
> >From: Ken Thompson <mrandmrst@comcast.net><br>
> >To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
> >Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:59:51 PM<br>
> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
> ><br>
> >Thanks for this list Dave,<br>
> >Pretty impressive showing for electrics, though I'll probably go
with the<br>
> >YS<br>
> >for my Black Magic next year.<br>
> >----- Original Message -----<br>
> >From: "Dave Lockhart" <davel322@comcast.net><br>
> >To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
> >Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:56 PM<br>
> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > > For FAI -<br>
> > ><br>
> > > JAS - Hacker C50, TP<br>
> > > QQ - YS170<br>
> > > Andrew - Hacker C50, TP<br>
> > > Sean - YS170<br>
> > > Chip - Hacker C50, TP<br>
> > > Brett - Hacker C50, Evo<br>
> > > Don - YS170<br>
> > > Dave - Hacker A60, TP<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Dave<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> > > [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5d">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</a>
On Behalf Of James<br>
> > > Oddino<br>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:50 PM<br>
> > > To: NSRCA Mailing List<br>
> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Final Scores<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Chris, how many of the finalists in FAI and Masters were
flying<br>
> > > electric?<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Jul 22, 2007, at 6:39 AM, chris moon wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > >> Full standings for Advanced and Intermediate<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Advanced:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> 1 ERIK J NEWSHOLME 3986.3315 STONE MOUNTAIN GA<br>
> > >> 2 RYAN M SMITH 3960.842 BROWNS <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">SUMMIT</st1:place></st1:City> NC<br>
> > >> 3 CHARLES A HOCHHALTER 3943.2206 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">SAN ANTONIO</st1:place></st1:City> TX<br>
> > >> 4 ANTHONY B PAGE 3927.7466 NICHOLS SC<br>
> > >> 5 JON A LOWE 3829.4998 <st1:City w:st="on">MADISON</st1:City>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">AL</st1:place></st1:State><br>
> > >> 6 ROBERT B GREEN 6810.7499 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">OMAHA</st1:place></st1:City> NE<br>
> > >> 7 EUGENE VILLA 3762.3207 <st1:place w:st="on">SKOKIE</st1:place>
IL<br>
> > >> 8 DENNIS BODARY 3725.752 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">TRENTON</st1:place></st1:City> MI<br>
> > >> 9 WILLIAM J SHEFFIELD 3717.2661 SPRING TX<br>
> > >> 10 LUIS A RODRIGUEZ 3692.1843 THE WOODLANDS TX<br>
> > >> 11 DAVID JOHNSTONE 3679.7326 <st1:place w:st="on">EDGEWOOD</st1:place>
KY<br>
> > >> 12 BILL R MITCHELL 3655.8635 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">LEXINGTON</st1:place></st1:City> NC<br>
> > >> 13 FRANK DEL GIUDICE 363.9105 <st1:place w:st="on">HOFFMAN
ESTATES</st1:place> IL<br>
> > >> 14 JOSEPH E ZEIGENFUS 3606.1274 EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP NJ<br>
> > >> 15 CARLOS M BARRERA 3493.3373 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">CONROE</st1:place></st1:City> TX<br>
> > >> 16 JARVIS R JOHNSON 3117.3074 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">CHINO</st1:place></st1:City> CA<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Intermediate:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> 1 MARCIO A JORGE O 3980.7941 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">ATLANTA</st1:place></st1:City> GA<br>
> > >> 2 RUOHAN (JACK) LI S 3947.2841 DUNLAP IL<br>
> > >> 3 GARY R COURTNEY O 3946.3255 <st1:City w:st="on">HUNTSVILLE</st1:City>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">AL</st1:place></st1:State><br>
> > >> 4 BRANDON C LANDRY J 3894.2959 BATON ROUGE LA<br>
> > >> 5 RICHARD A ROSINSKI II O 3881.1865 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">RALEIGH</st1:place></st1:City> NC<br>
> > >> 6 EDWIN M MANSON J 3777.0279 <st1:place w:st="on">MCLEAN</st1:place>
VA<br>
> > >> 7 MATTHEW C LIPRIE S 3767.6467 <st1:place w:st="on">LAKE</st1:place>
CHARLES LA<br>
> > >> 8 JOHN KONNEKER O 3765.2024 MOUNT PLEASANT IA<br>
> > >> 9 JON R MARTIN O 3756.0163 RAYNE LA<br>
> > >> 10 AUSTIN WINGO S 3667.335 <st1:City w:st="on">BIRMINGHAM</st1:City>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">AL</st1:place></st1:State><br>
> > >> 11 LARRY L KAUFFMAN O 3633.7106 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">MANASSAS</st1:place></st1:City> VA<br>
> > >> 12 ROYCE W DORSETT O 3564.2409 WELCOME NC<br>
> > >> 13 TIM R TIPTON O 3544.1965 BROKEN ARROW OK<br>
> > >> 14 BRUCE M GINN O 3536.6891 NORTH EAST MD<br>
> > >> 15 MICHAEL GREEAR O 3455.4515 LITTLEROCK CA<br>
> > >> 16 DYLAN FORNEY O 3414.4633 MURCHISON TX<br>
> > >> 17 DEAN FUNK O 3348.4203 AUSTELL GA<br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Tim Taylor wrote:<br>
> > >>> Well we know all about FAI and Masters, but wasn't
there a couple<br>
> > >>> other<br>
> > >>> classes flying? What about them? Don't they rate
some air time as<br>
> > >>> well?<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> <br>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > >>> ---<br>
> > >>> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! -
their life, your<br>
> > >>> story.<br>
> > >>> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.<br>
> > >>> <a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http:/sims.yahoo.com/"><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http://sims.yahoo.com/></a><br>
> > >>> <br>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > >>> ---<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> > >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> > >>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> _________________________________________________________________<br>
> > >> <a href="http://newlivehotmail.com">http://newlivehotmail.com</a><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> > >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> > >> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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> > > <a
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> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
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> ><br>
> >_______________________________________________<br>
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> ><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
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> ><br>
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