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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Derek,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Based on what you have stated and understanding
from my discussions with you, I need to be the first to apologize to the NSRCA and
Board members as promised in a previous e-mail.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do believe that the NSRCA was working
with the AMA. For those that ask if the rules were followed by the NSRCA, the
answer is yes. I was one of those people that initiated this line of
questioning early with strong comments. I do believe the NSRCA Board acted in
the best interest of the NSRCA while working with the AMA. This doesn’t
mean the decision is popular. Most correct decisions are not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>With that said, we need to start looking
forward and beyond. Eric has rights to address this with the AMA and request an
appeal. As tough as this may sound, even the finest judicial system in the
world is not perfect and innocent people get sentenced. If confronted with
information that indicates wrong doing by someone, I would deliver a decision
based on the information in front of me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have much respect for Eric and all those
being named in previous. If not for them and their individual sacrifices, we
would not have the NSRCA. I’m not a well known pilot in pattern, but all those
that I have meet I hold in high regard.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m done with this thread….signing
off<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Larry
Diamond</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>NSRCA 3083<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>AMA 5024<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Derek Koopowitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:25
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Chapter-5 Going too far.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I've seen some really good words flying around this topic lately -
banning, lynching, secretive, uninformed, etc. None of it is true.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The NSRCA worked in concert with the AMA on these charges - everything
was done on the up and up and we were in consultation with them from the
beginning and they fully supported the outcome. There are other issues
beyond the bias charges that the AMA has dealt with (or is dealing with)
concerning the individual and since we host the pattern Nationals the AMA asked
us to review the data and to make a determination as to whether the bias
allegations were valid, and then to make a ruling as to what the punishment
would be. We ruled on that after reviewing all the data - and,
yes, it is mathematically/statistically possible to make a determination
based on one round of data. The full scale aerobatic community uses TBLP
on a round by round basis to determine potential bias - we did not use TBLP but
the data supports the bias allegations. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The NSRCA board did not jump up and down screaming "yahoo"
when the outcome was reached - I think every person on the board was a
little saddened by it. I think the bottom line that everyone should
remember is that regardless of who the individuals were and what their
character is like, bias was present and we needed to make a decision as to the
punishment. As someone from D1 mentioned to me in a private email - there
has been a long history of acrimony/bias between the people concerned and
unfortunately it showed itself in one round of scoring at the Nationals. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 6/26/07, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>W.
Hinkle</span></b> <<a href="mailto:whinkle1024@msn.com">whinkle1024@msn.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dave is a good pilot but character being beyond reproach is a bit of a<br>
stretch. Ask John Glizellis about when Dave shot him down and haggled over <br>
the price. This was to replace a brand new model with less than 30 flights<br>
on it at the NATS. The incident was at the NATS during practice at the AMA<br>
field. We all make mistakes, but to penny pinch the guy that just cost his <br>
new model part way through the Nationals. JR had to step in and forced the<br>
hand. If it had not been for Dave the sponsorship threat Dave would still be<br>
argueing the price of a new built model. Dave replaced it after some debate <br>
with JR. This is not character beyond reproach? Dave may be a good guy just<br>
don't be on the same freq. He'll tell how poor your model is built and its<br>
not worth the price of a professional built kit.<br>
<br>
I'll agree that both parties in this fight are not angels. I'm not a fan or<br>
Eric's but my question to this forum<br>
<br>
Why is the NSRCA involved at all?<br>
<br>
Doesn't the NSRCA have better things to do with its time and energy than <br>
lynching a judge at the request of a couple pilots that have character<br>
beyond reproach?<br>
<br>
I feel this is another sign of the NSRCA just wasting resources, time and<br>
money in the name of being the Savior of pattern flying. Beware people <br>
beware. Come on. Getting two of Dave's best buddies in D1 to write a program<br>
to damn a person that they and David hate with a passion. To me is smells<br>
like old shellfish. These were the same judges who claimed in the past the <br>
judge that gave the zero was the one that got it right.<br>
<br>
The NSRCA has no business in this arena. I find it appalling the Board even<br>
had this on the agenda. I also find it appalling that a ruling was made,<br>
then Eric was notified of the charges and the conviction. As Eric stated, no<br>
statistics can determine what the judge actually saw or better yet what the<br>
pilot actually flew. So Eric's scores were below the average for a given <br>
pilot. Maybe the pilot flew below average in Eric's eyes. This is why the<br>
NATS uses more than one judge. This is a fact of life. This looks very one<br>
sided by the NSRCA.<br>
<br>
The NSRCA has no place in this squabble. <br>
<br>
<br>
>From: "John Pavlick" <<a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>><br>
>Reply-To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
</a>><br>
>To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>"
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.<br>
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:27:00 -0400 <br>
><br>
>Len,<br>
> All of the people involved were from D1 - I thought the good
ol' boys<br>
>were in D2 and D3! <LOL><br>
><br>
>John Pavlick<br>
><a href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com </a><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: Leonard Rudy<br>
> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:47 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.<br>
><br>
><br>
> John,<br>
><br>
> The conflict may have
blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict, but in<br>
>the NHL<br>
> those "with the power" hear both sides and let each
side present their <br>
>case before<br>
> the powers to be assign penalties. After the
penalties are imposed, the<br>
>player or<br>
> individual still has the right to appeal the decision.<br>
> You say Eric should take
whatever the powers to be want and don't <br>
>make any<br>
> noise or waves.<br>
> This is a clear message to
others who will be judging at meets in<br>
>the future. DO NOT GIVE THE GOOD OLD BOYS GROUP any low or bad
scores or<br>
>you may be on the receiving end of some form of penalty that you will not <br>
>like.<br>
><br>
> Len Rudy<br>
> "Life is easier if you learn to plow around
the stumps" or in other<br>
>words, do not<br>
> hand out low scores to the Good Old Boys or you will pay
dearly for it <br>
>one way or<br>
> another.<br>
><br>
> Fred Huber <<a href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">fhhuber@clearwire.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
> The penalty does not appear appropriate...<br>
><br>
> It also sounds like it was not applied in a manner
consistant with the <br>
>rules system.<br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: John Ferrell<br>
> To: Don Ramsey ; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:12 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Chapter-5 Going too far. <br>
><br>
><br>
> I have the good fortune to not be
involved in this dispute. I am<br>
>only aware of the conflict.<br>
><br>
> Not being very good at staying out of
arguments, I offer the<br>
>following observations: <br>
> A heated difference of opinions
occurred.<br>
> Every one involved is considered a
valuable asset to the Pattern<br>
>Game.<br>
> Things were said that should not have
been said.<br>
> Every one thinks they are right. <br>
> There was probably at least one (or
may be several) bad call(s) by<br>
>some one.<br>
><br>
> The conflict blossomed like a Hockey
Game Conflict and the net<br>
>result was those with the power and responsibility treated it like a Hockey
<br>
>Game Conflict! A serious "time out" was assigned to the
individual at the<br>
>focal point of the conflict. It was their duty to put the problem on ice.<br>
><br>
> The expectations of the rest of us who
value the game and its <br>
>players is that right or wrong the referee's call must be honored. The<br>
>referee has the power to impose further penalties if the individual<br>
>continues to make waves. Right or wrong, this is the was disputes are <br>
>handled in the world of competition.<br>
><br>
> If the individual was drawn into the
conflict by goading it is still<br>
>he who gets the penalty.<br>
><br>
> Conflict resolution is not something
that is natural to the human <br>
>condition. Conflict is.<br>
><br>
> Eric needs to take the penalty and get
on with things.Those in power<br>
>need to accept that the penalty has been applied and to continue the game.<br>
><br>
> WE ALL need to be aware that we either
play nice or get sent to the <br>
>showers!<br>
><br>
> Another factor to consider is that the
higher profile one achieves<br>
>in this sport the greater the need to hold that individual to higher<br>
>standards.<br>
> Eric is certainly a "high
profile" player. <br>
><br>
> John
Ferrell W8CCW<br>
> "Life is easier if you learn to
plow<br>
> around
the stumps"<br>
> <a href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</a><br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message
-----<br>
> From: Don Ramsey<br>
> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
> Sent: Sunday, June 24,
2007 7:32 PM<br>
> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far. <br>
><br>
><br>
> I would like to thank Eric
for the nice complement in his comment,<br>
>"To circumvent this conflict of interest problem and to keep the
Nationals<br>
>above reproach, I steeped out of line and asked Don Ramsey to independently
<br>
>choose the judges, Dave could not refuse this method, but I will tell you<br>
>that he got extremely mad at me for doing it."<br>
><br>
> I must respond that for
good or bad I've been choosing the finals <br>
>judges for many years. I started that process when Jeff Hill was
Event<br>
>Director. It must also be stated that I've never had any
pressure of any<br>
>kind from contest management regarding who I choose to judge. I
try to <br>
>pick the best candidates and rotate those so no single judge can influence<br>
>the outcome extradionarly.<br>
><br>
> Don<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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