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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>“Rechargeable batteries” by definition are referred
to as storage batteries or secondary cells, batteries that can be restored to
full charge by the application of electrical energy. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In the spirit of the current AMA rule 4.3 rechargeable
batteries used to provide electricity for e-powered aircraft is truly a storage
unit for electricity (fuel). That being the case both e-powered and IC
powered aircraft should be weighed with everything excluding fuel which does
not exclude the fuel storage unit i.e. fuel tank for IC powered aircraft,
rechargeable battery for e-powered aircraft. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Altering the weight rule as proposed by John Fuqua can and will
affect every AMA pattern competitor, some negatively some positively.
Rules should only be changed unless duly warranted to level the playing field for
the majority. Lobbying a rule change to appease a minority to ease their
effort to make weight with e-power is not in the best interest for the majority.
Instead apply energy and pressure on the vendors who supply motors, ESC,
batteries, airframes, accessories etc. to evolve their technology to meet the
objectives of the pattern community.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Personally I’ve witnessed several local competitors
newly construct and retrofit existing aircraft with e-power and make weight. Making
weight with either IC power or e-power requires planning and application of sound
building techniques. Everyone’s goals and interest are different as
to why they do pattern. No matter the level of interest or enjoyment one
receives some effort large or small has to be applied to compete within the
structure of the rules.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Glen Watson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>http://www.geocities.com/rcprecision/pah.html<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ron Van Putte<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 25, 2007 2:07
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>After reading all the responses on this issue, John Fuqua has decided
to amend his draft rule change proposal to require that electric-powered
airplanes be weighed with battery, but be given 4 oz relief from the 5 KG (11
lb) maximum weight . His logic is that, even the Intermediate/Advanced
glow-powered airplanes use about 10 oz of fuel in a flight and 10 oz of fuel
weighs about 8 oz. So, halfway through the flight, a glow-powered
airplane in the Intermediate/Advanced class, which barely makes the weight limit,
is likely to weigh about 11 lb 4 oz. The guys in the Master class
would still be at a disadvantage, but a 4 oz relief is still better than a
stick in the eye.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jun 25, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Joe Lachowski wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>There is a compromise solution that I have in mind. So let's
give 2 ozs. Many of the planes I have heard of through the grapevine that are
overweight are usually within that 2 ozs. overweight. Eight ozs is just too
much to give.<br>
<br>
Two ounces should be just enough not to create a proliferation of new
designs coming about to take advantage of the situation and allow some
breathing room to use existing airframes. Actually, I could even be
persuaded to accept even 3 or 4 ozs. Eight ounces just opens up a can of worms.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id="EC_stopSpelling">
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: <a href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">verne@twmi.rr.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:45:26 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Having flown both glow and now electric. I agree with Ron to
a point. The batteries ARE the fuel in an electric plane and so weighing them
with the batteries (not counting the Rx battery) is almost comparable to
weighing a glow motor plane with fuel. I said almost because the weight of an
electric motor and speed controller is considerably less than the weight of a
glow motor, muffler, and servo. I consider myself a reasonably light builder,
but have had to be extraordinarily careful to keep my electric planes within
the weight limits, to the point of not having features I'd prefer to have for
safety such as an on/off switch and arming plug. I know of one electric flier
that folded up his fuse in a snap because the construction was inadequate, also
not safe. Can they be built light enough? Yep, I've done it twice, but there
are compromises and not all are good. I also agree with Dave Lockhart's
assessment that weighing electric planes without the batteries will have
unintended consequences and new planes will be developed for/by the
exceptionally skilled. Somewhere in all of this, there's probably a reasonable
solution, but none are on the table and most seem to think that if an increase
is allowed now, it can never be taken back as technology develops. Perhaps, but
I don't see the logic if the adjustment is written properly. In truth, I'm on
the fence on this issue, but I'd sure like a little cushion to beef things up a
little and add that arming plug. BTW, I've found no performance advantage in
electric, just reliability and less mess. Fact is, I was winning a lot more
with glow.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Verne</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, June 25,
2007 1:11 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No. Most of the people who can "make weight" are
extremely talented in building a light airplane for battery power (or can
afford to pay a talented builder) and have the money to spend to buy the
lightest equipment (motor/batteries/ESC). I don't think I'm denigrating
the pilot on a limited budget when I say that. The result is, those who
have the money can compete with electric-powered airplanes, but most of the
others can't. The factor causing most of the money discrepancy is the
unfair application of the weight limit by requiring electric-powered airplanes
to be weighed with the batteries, but allowing glow-powered airplanes to be
weighed with an empty fuel tank. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jun 25, 2007, at 8:48 AM, Del K. Rykert wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Ron.. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Is your message that glow is at a
disadvantage? Cost and what some can afford has always and will always be
an issue in this sport. Back when everyone else switched to full 2 meter planes
and I stuck with 60 size 2 cycle I could easily see the disadvantage I was at
except in calm air. If that is where electric is taking the sport then
that is another nail in the proverbial coffin for the sport. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday, June 22,
2007 12:00 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I have a built-in problem with someone being able to "buy" a
win. It comes from when I entered the Soapbox Derby as a 14 year
old. In my first race, I was beaten buy a kid who eventually won the
whole race. My dad could afford to buy me an official set of
wheels, but no more. The father of the kid who beat me bought ten sets of
wheels and they were able to select the four best wheels. If a rule
enables only the "rich" to compete successfully with an e-powered
airplane, it gets my hackles up. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jun 22, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Dave Lockhart wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ron / John,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> Point taken. And no offense,
but so what? As a kid, I was never the biggest guy on the playing
fields……but I loved to play anyway and never asked for a head
start, an extra kick, or an extra swing. I’m still not the
“biggest kid”, and some of the most fun I’ve had was whooping
up on the “superior” equipment back when I couldn’t afford
the latest greatest Skippy Propnut TurboZoot 9000 XL MkVII Touring edition
limited SE with the add-ons.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The average guy can’t afford many
things…..like the Naruke edition Astral flown by McMurtry at the 2006
NATs? Or even the Oxai version…..or even the Xtreme version.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Your argument could be extended to many
things…….2C vs 4C (as if you could get a consensus on which is
“better”)………..analog vs digital
servos………….guys flying electrics w/ NIcd or Nimh
because they can’t afford lipos………and on an on.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pattern competition is a competitive event
with some broad limits (weight, size, noise). You have your choices, you pick
what is most competitive for your available budget, you practice, you
compete. You win, or you lose.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you / John don’t think electric
is competitive under the current rules, fly glow.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Others think electric is competitive and
are flying electric.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Again, electric is in its
infancy……make a rule now that favors electrics and you will ensure
unquestionable electric dominance in the very near future. Just remember
the 120 4C….it was to allow parity between a piped 60 2C and allow a
quieter powerplant. Very shortsighted rule as the 120 4C became dominant
rapidly. Clearly the gap (if there is one) between electric and glow
today is nothing like the 2C / 4C gap was in ~1988 (when 2C 60s dominated 120
4Cs) or now (when a 120 4C dominates 60 2Cs).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>By definition, the average guy will never
be able to afford the highest level setup. And that has never prevented
something like a humble wooden Focus from winning the NATs…..at any
level.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ron Van Putte<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 22, 2007 10:27
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>It is said that you can't understand a person's
problems until you've walked a mile in their shoes. John and I didn't
understand what the problems were regarding making weight with electric-powered
airplanes until he decided to compete with one. I am still competing with a
glow-powered Focus.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>John's airplane is under 5 Kg, but not by much. Due to
an extensive weight-saving building job on his Black Magic by Mike Hester and
John's careful selection and installation of radio, batteries, ESC, prop,
motor, spinner, et al, his airplane is OK with weight, even in the kind of
winds we often see at the Nats. He's thinking about the guys who can't afford
as much $$$ as he has invested in his setup. The average guy probably can't
build an electric-powered 2 meter airplane that makes weight and is competitive
with the kind of budget required for a glow-powered version of the same
airplane. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The learning curve is very steep. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Keith Black wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I fly electric but still would be against this proposal. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>John F. makes some good points in his justification,
however, I simply think that Dave's counter points out "weigh" John's
points.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think if you read Dave's post with an open mind and not a
pre-conceived "position" you feel you have to protect you'll find his
logic very compelling. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>BTW, I find this change of heart by you and John quite
amusing. This is probably unfair but it almost sounds as if one of you can't
get your new e-plane to make weight with the current rules. I'm sure that's not
true, but from the outside it certainly appears that way.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I hope the real reason for "floating" this idea
was to get people opinions. If so I'm beginning to see a trend.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Keith Black</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=ecmsonormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday, June 21,
2007 7:38 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I was also not aware that glow-powered airplanes
needed the handicap they already have. I agree that, with innovative design and
$$$, electric-powered airplanes can compete with glow-powered airplanes. The
ones who suffer from the weight inequity are those who can't afford the $$$ to
overcome the weight inequity. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Jun 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, John Ferrell wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I did not realize that the Electrics were in need of a
handicap. They seem to be doing just fine against the recips under current
rules. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you really think they need a little help by all means
give them a rule book boost!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
"Life is easier if you learn to plow <br>
around the stumps"<br>
<a href="http://dixienc.us/" target="_blank">http://DixieNC.US</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=ecmsonormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday, June 21,
2007 2:44 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I just got this response from John Fuqua.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Ron Van Putte</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span class=ecapple-style-span><font size=1 color="#0000fc"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#0000FC'>The guys are
missing the point. It is not about what can be achieved on weight. It is what
is permitted by the rules. They are not arguing the logic of what the rules
allow (in most cases) but examples of what has been achieved. Please make that
point. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span class=ecapple-style-span><font size=1 color="#0000fc"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#0000FC'>John</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:4.5pt;min-height: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span class=ecapple-style-span><b><font size=1
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b></span><span class=ecapple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> Ron
Van Putte [<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">mailto:vanputte@cox.net</a>] </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span class=ecapple-style-span><b><font size=1
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:
bold'>Sent:</span></font></b></span><span class=ecapple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>
Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:18 PM</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span class=ecapple-style-span><b><font size=1
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:
bold'>To:</span></font></b></span><span class=ecapple-style-span><font size=1
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> Fuqua John
D Mr CTR USAF 697 ARSF/EN</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span class=ecapple-style-span><b><font size=1
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:
bold'>Subject:</span></font></b></span><span class=ecapple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> Fwd:
[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Electric Weight Proposal Logic and Rationale</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
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12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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