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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just think, 30 years ago the average
modeler could afford to fly Class III. Of course if he wanted to he could
fly Class I or II. Everyone thought retracts would cost too much but the
average modeler found a way to have them too. It was a lot of fun with
your “every day” plane, one that did not need to be pampered from
lack of use but flown all the time. Remember back then, you only had one
radio and one airplane. The second airplane was on the bench being built
or being “research” so it could be built for next year.
Vintage Pattern or the Senior Pattern Association is trying to get the average
modeler back to pattern but today he has too many choices, too many roads to be
traveled and only so much time. Do you remember the times when all
pattern contests had 50 to 70 entrants? I do. But I can’t
live in the past, too many roads are now open and I’ve got to have a
radio for each pathway. The average modeler wants to try all the
different venues. Again, remember 30 years ago all that was available was
Class I, II, III or Scale. The average modeler just flew his sport planes
be they pattern type or scale. How many of you have seen a Galloping
Ghost airplane fly? But, I digress. Sorry. Dwayne</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Lockhart<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 22, 2007 9:54
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ron / John,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Point taken. And no
offense, but so what? As a kid, I was never the biggest guy on the
playing fields……but I loved to play anyway and never asked for a
head start, an extra kick, or an extra swing. I’m still not the
“biggest kid”, and some of the most fun I’ve had was whooping
up on the “superior” equipment back when I couldn’t afford
the latest greatest Skippy Propnut TurboZoot 9000 XL MkVII Touring edition
limited SE with the add-ons.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The average guy
can’t afford many things…..like the Naruke edition Astral flown by
McMurtry at the 2006 NATs? Or even the Oxai version…..or even the
Xtreme version.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Your argument could be
extended to many things…….2C vs 4C (as if you could get a consensus
on which is “better”)………..analog vs digital
servos………….guys flying electrics w/ NIcd or Nimh
because they can’t afford lipos………and on an on.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pattern competition is a
competitive event with some broad limits (weight, size, noise). You have
your choices, you pick what is most competitive for your available budget, you
practice, you compete. You win, or you lose.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you / John don’t
think electric is competitive under the current rules, fly glow.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Others think electric is
competitive and are flying electric.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Again, electric is in its
infancy……make a rule now that favors electrics and you will ensure
unquestionable electric dominance in the very near future. Just remember
the 120 4C….it was to allow parity between a piped 60 2C and allow a
quieter powerplant. Very shortsighted rule as the 120 4C became dominant
rapidly. Clearly the gap (if there is one) between electric and glow
today is nothing like the 2C / 4C gap was in ~1988 (when 2C 60s dominated 120
4Cs) or now (when a 120 4C dominates 60 2Cs).</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>By definition, the
average guy will never be able to afford the highest level setup. And
that has never prevented something like a humble wooden Focus from winning the
NATs…..at any level.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ron Van Putte<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 22, 2007 10:27
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>It is said that you can't understand a person's
problems until you've walked a mile in their shoes. John and I didn't
understand what the problems were regarding making weight with electric-powered
airplanes until he decided to compete with one. I am still competing with a glow-powered
Focus.</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>John's airplane is under 5 Kg, but not by much. Due to
an extensive weight-saving building job on his Black Magic by Mike Hester and
John's careful selection and installation of radio, batteries, ESC, prop,
motor, spinner, et al, his airplane is OK with weight, even in the kind of
winds we often see at the Nats. He's thinking about the guys who can't afford
as much $$$ as he has invested in his setup. The average guy probably can't
build an electric-powered 2 meter airplane that makes weight and is competitive
with the kind of budget required for a glow-powered version of the same
airplane. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The learning curve is very steep. </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Keith Black wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I fly electric but still would be against
this proposal. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>John F. makes some good points in
his justification, however, I simply think that Dave's counter points out
"weigh" John's points.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think if you read Dave's post with
an open mind and not a pre-conceived "position" you feel you have to
protect you'll find his logic very compelling. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>BTW, I find this change of heart by
you and John quite amusing. This is probably unfair but it almost sounds as if
one of you can't get your new e-plane to make weight with the current rules.
I'm sure that's not true, but from the outside it certainly appears that way.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I hope the real reason for
"floating" this idea was to get people opinions. If so I'm beginning
to see a trend.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Keith Black</span></font> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday,
June 21, 2007 7:38 PM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I was also not aware that glow-powered airplanes
needed the handicap they already have. I agree that, with innovative design and
$$$, electric-powered airplanes can compete with glow-powered airplanes. The
ones who suffer from the weight inequity are those who can't afford the $$$ to
overcome the weight inequity. </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Jun 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, John Ferrell wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I did not realize that the Electrics
were in need of a handicap. They seem to be doing just fine against the recips
under current rules. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If you really think they need a
little help by all means give them a rule book boost!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
"Life is easier if you learn to plow <br>
around the stumps"<br>
<a href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday,
June 21, 2007 2:44 PM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I just got
this response from John Fuqua.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Ron Van Putte</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=1 color="#0000fc" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#0000FC'>The guys are missing the point. It is not about what can be
achieved on weight. It is what is permitted by the rules. They are not arguing
the logic of what the rules allow (in most cases) but examples of what has been
achieved. Please make that point. </span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=1 color="#0000fc" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#0000FC'>John</span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.5pt;margin-left:.5in;MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><b><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b></span><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> Ron
Van Putte [<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">mailto:vanputte@cox.net</a>] </span></font></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><b><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b></span><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>
Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:18 PM</span></font></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><b><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b></span><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>
Fuqua John D Mr CTR USAF 697 ARSF/EN</span></font></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><b><font
size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Helvetica'> Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Electric Weight Proposal
Logic and Rationale</span></font></span></p>
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