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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I ditched those shoes after Round 3 of
last years nats – which was the 3<sup>rd</sup> in a row with so much loss
of power as to not be able to fly correct maneuver geometry. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However – electric has never been
billed as “average-guy” pattern. If you decided to stray from
setups like those used by Dave, Chad, Jason, Jerry, Tony you will quickly find
yourself paying your way through an un-intended “R & D” circle.
The actual plane costs are going to be an after-thought compared to the price
of all the other components. Given the rapidly changing technology and
reputation for degraded packs after customer use or misuse, the resale market
is basically-nill. Also, it turns out that one person who bought my packs
from after the nats did so only to find out some of the cells were bad –
thankfully taken care of my the manufacturer to my knowledge (and apologies to
the buyer). The weight is really all about which batteries you use.
Are you selecting 3 lb packs or 2.5 lb packs… It does suck though
when restringing the rudder from 4-40 gear to 2-56 becomes your option to reduce
weight </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> . The one thing I absolutely refused to do though was remove
the wheel pants. Also, I think remembering that the APC 20x15E was
noticeably lighter than something like the 21x14. I also bought small
glow-motor AL spinner-hubs, and drilled them out and tapped them to be used a
the actual prop bolt, saving weight by not using an actual prop bolt and
spinner – of course no switch was used, just a small 750 2-cell battery
into a Jaaico regulator, into the receiver pack. However, I think
remembering that the TP5300’s were something like 2.5 lbs. With
those I would have been comfortably under weight and had power to spare for FAI
– should I have managed them correctly and such (used luxury items like
spinners and switches).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think to fly electric well in a
longevity sense, you need to be even MORE “into” the power setup
and essentially become and electric-flight expert, than with the current glow
setups. It will be a difficult transition if you are not totally
committed to the E-systems nuisances through the full realm of equipment and
charging infrastructure. If you are not ready and enthused to become an
E-expert, the PIA factor will start to creep in and you’ll start to think
about just swinging an 18” prop on a glow setup. There is every bit
the same need to carry “spare” powertrain equipment with E as with
Glow. Also, another flyer in our area simply noted that for him, more flying-time
was the key to improvement regardless of the platform. Of course we all
want the absolute best flying plane and equipment we can get our hands
on. As for my own decisions and “way” for which I can get
flying time in and such, it is more “valuable” to simply fill up
and fly. I felt for a while that in calm air there was an advantage to
the 20+ inch E-prop and that there was a perceived “smoothness”
gained with the E-setup. In retrospect if it is blowing past 10 mph that feeling
is definitely gone and anything higher, etc….. etc. etc., but now way off
topic….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyway, just some of my experience. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim W.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ron Van Putte<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 22, 2007 10:27
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>It is said that you can't understand a person's problems until you've
walked a mile in their shoes. John and I didn't understand what the
problems were regarding making weight with electric-powered airplanes until he
decided to compete with one. I am still competing with a glow-powered
Focus.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>John's airplane is under 5 Kg, but not by much. Due to an
extensive weight-saving building job on his Black Magic by Mike Hester and
John's careful selection and installation of radio, batteries, ESC, prop,
motor, spinner, et al, his airplane is OK with weight, even in the kind of
winds we often see at the Nats. He's thinking about the guys who can't
afford as much $$$ as he has invested in his setup. The average guy
probably can't build an electric-powered 2 meter airplane that makes weight and
is competitive with the kind of budget required for a glow-powered version of
the same airplane. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The learning curve is very steep. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Keith Black wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I fly electric but still would be against this proposal. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>John F. makes some good points in his justification,
however, I simply think that Dave's counter points out
"weigh" John's points.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think if you read Dave's post with an open mind and not a
pre-conceived "position" you feel you have to protect you'll find his
logic very compelling. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>BTW, I find this change of heart by you and John quite
amusing. This is probably unfair but it almost sounds as if one of you can't
get your new e-plane to make weight with the current rules. I'm sure that's not
true, but from the outside it certainly appears that way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I hope the real reason for "floating" this idea
was to get people opinions. If so I'm beginning to see a trend.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Keith Black</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday, June 21,
2007 7:38 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I was also not aware that glow-powered airplanes needed the handicap
they already have. I agree that, with innovative design and $$$, electric-powered
airplanes can compete with glow-powered airplanes. The ones who
suffer from the weight inequity are those who can't afford the $$$ to overcome
the weight inequity. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jun 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, John Ferrell wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I did not realize that the Electrics were in need of a
handicap. They seem to be doing just fine against the recips under current
rules. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you really think they need a little help by all means
give them a rule book boost!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
"Life is easier if you learn to plow <br>
around the stumps"<br>
<a href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net" title="vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday, June 21,
2007 2:44 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I just got this response from John Fuqua.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Ron Van Putte</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color="#0000fc"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#0000FC'>The guys are
missing the point. It is not about what can be achieved on weight.
It is what is permitted by the rules. They are not arguing the
logic of what the rules allow (in most cases) but examples of what has been
achieved. Please make that point. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color="#0000fc"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#0000FC'>John</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.5pt;
margin-left:0in;MIN-HEIGHT: 14px'><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Helvetica'> Ron Van Putte [<a href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">mailto:vanputte@cox.net</a>] </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Helvetica'> Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:18 PM</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b></span><span
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font-family:Helvetica'> Fuqua John D Mr CTR USAF 697 ARSF/EN</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><b><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span
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font-family:Helvetica'> Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Electric Weight Proposal
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