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<DIV><SPAN class=453064814-22062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We
built a Temptation for a Mintor 170 a few years ago, had several problems and
converted to the relatively 'standard' Hacker set-up and longer gear. We
started out with twin FMA/Kokam 3200 5s1ps through discharge protection
modules. That set-up ended up about 11lb, 2oz. Then I got a
painted-in-the-mold Impact, took <EM>reasonable</EM> care on the set-up and came
up with 11lb, 2oz--again. In both instances, I could shed around 2.5 oz by
removing the DPMs. I think that year we were still flying P05 and at first
we got a pattern plus about 4 maneuvers--then 3--then 2--and after 25 cycles,
the batts were shot as far as FAI was concerned. Those batteries were
about 2lb, 1 oz/pair. Now, granted the new higher C ratings will help with
somewhat lower capacities at about this same weight--so that bodes well for E
power--I still have my doubts on cycles--but time will tell. But now
I've got four sets of 5000s--all weighing in at around 3 lbs and no way to make
the airplanes competitive. I'm not flying this year because of other
pressures--but I'm still not looking forward to building a couple more airplanes
for next year (I hope). My gripe is probably for guys like myself that are
kind of on the edge of being in and out and don't see (completely) the logic of
the different weighing rules.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=453064814-22062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=453064814-22062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Richard</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ron Van
Putte<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 22, 2007 9:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight
Limits<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>It is said that you can't understand a person's
problems until you've walked a mile in their shoes. John and I didn't
understand what the problems were regarding making weight with
electric-powered airplanes until he decided to compete with one. I am
still competing with a glow-powered Focus.
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>John's airplane is under 5 Kg, but not by much. Due to an extensive
weight-saving building job on his Black Magic by Mike Hester and John's
careful selection and installation of radio, batteries, ESC, prop, motor,
spinner, et al, his airplane is OK with weight, even in the kind of winds we
often see at the Nats. He's thinking about the guys who can't afford as
much $$$ as he has invested in his setup. The average guy probably can't
build an electric-powered 2 meter airplane that makes weight and is
competitive with the kind of budget required for a glow-powered version of the
same airplane. </DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>The learning curve is very steep. <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Keith Black wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I fly electric but still would be against this
proposal. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John F. makes some good points in his
justification, however, I simply think that Dave's counter points out
"weigh" John's points.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think if you read Dave's post with an open
mind and not a pre-conceived "position" you feel you have to protect you'll
find his logic very compelling. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW, I find this change of heart by you and John quite amusing. This is
probably unfair but it almost sounds as if one of you can't get your new
e-plane to make weight with the current rules. I'm sure that's not true, but
from the outside it certainly appears that way.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I hope the real reason for "floating" this idea
was to get people opinions. If so I'm beginning to see a trend.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vanputte@cox.net href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I was also not aware that glow-powered airplanes needed the
handicap they already have. I agree that, with innovative design and
$$$, electric-powered airplanes can compete with glow-powered
airplanes. The ones who suffer from the weight inequity are those
who can't afford the $$$ to overcome the weight inequity.
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, John Ferrell wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I did not realize that the Electrics were
in need of a handicap. They seem to be doing just fine against the
recips under current rules. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you really think they need a little help
by all means give them a rule book boost!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>John Ferrell W8CCW<BR>"Life is easier if you
learn to plow <BR> around the
stumps"<BR><A href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vanputte@cox.net href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van
Putte</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 21, 2007
2:44 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Airplane Weight Limits</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>I
just got this response from John Fuqua.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000>Ron Van Putte</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#0000fc
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR
class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#0000fc
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">The guys
are missing the point. It is not about what can be achieved on
weight. It is what is permitted by the
rules. They are not arguing the logic of what the rules
allow (in most cases) but examples of what has been
achieved. Please make that
point. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#0000fc
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">John</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Arial"><BR></DIV>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 6px; FONT: 12px Arial"><BR></P>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B>From:</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT
class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica size=2><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"> Ron Van Putte [<A
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">mailto:vanputte@cox.net</A>]</SPAN></FONT><FONT
class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica size=2><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B>Sent:</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT
class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica size=2><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"> Thursday, June 21,
2007 1:18 PM</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B>To:</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT
class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica size=2><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"> Fuqua John D Mr CTR
USAF 697 ARSF/EN</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica
size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B>Subject:</B></SPAN></FONT><FONT
class=Apple-style-span face=Helvetica size=2><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"> Fwd:
[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Electric Weight Proposal Logic and
Rationale</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Arial"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Arial"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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