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size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=362514814-14062007></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>IMHO</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=362514814-14062007>Even a Sportman who barely know to fly their own
sequences, doesn't mean that can't judge even FAI pilots. If he has the
knowledge and the ability to judge correctly then you should use him to judge
FAI. Is common to think that a FAI pilot who has to know to fly with all the
rules in his mind must be a great judge but is not always the case, they can be
a terrible judge and a great flyer.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=362514814-14062007>I had seen FAI judges that they aren't even pilots, but
they know the rules.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=362514814-14062007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=362514814-14062007>Arturo</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ron Van
Putte<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:34 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats
registration<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>My comments regarding not all Intermediate class pilots being
qualified to judge Advanced is from experience. A lot of Intermediate
class pilots just moved up from Sportsman and barely know how to fly their own
sequences, much less judge a class above them. They don't have the basic
knowledge of how to judge correctly. I've had Intermediate pilots ask to
be assigned to any other job than being a judge of Advanced pilots because they
didn't feel qualified.
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Further, like all programs, our judging certification program often leaves
a lot to be desired. Despite the efforts of a lot of people like Don
Ramsey, how many pilots just got certified by sitting in a group with a lot of
other guys who all took the "test" together? I've seen it happen far too
often. Judge certification classes run by Don Ramsey at the Nats
take several hours. I've watched some local classes take less than an hour
and most of that was taking the test. For experienced judges, just taking
the test is probably enough, because they have familiarized themselves with
changes to the rules and only need to take the test. However, I believe
that pilots who are inexperienced judges are being shortchanged at the local
level.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 14, 2007, at 8:12 AM, John Ferrell wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I find the lack of confidence in the Judging
Certification Program to be an insult to those who put forth so much effort
into it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There are still a lot of Masters/FAI pilots who
choose to not waste their time knowing the AMA rule book. And there are many
pilots who are new to the Pattern Discipline that have read and continue to
read the Rule book like the Bible!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The class one flies is not a good indicator of
their judging qualities.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Ferrell W8CCW<BR>"Life is
easier if you learn to plow <BR> around
the stumps"<BR><A
href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vanputte@cox.net href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:44
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats
registration</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>It is true that SOME
Intermediate pilots are qualified to judge Advanced and are used if they
are. The event director's job is to discover who is qualified.
That's why we pay him the big $. <VBG>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Provided that the Intermediate pilots aren't
qualified to judge Advanced, right? And since there are 20
Intermediate pilots they can help out with judging Advanced as well -
since everyone has to be certified.<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 6/13/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Ron Van
Putte</B> <<A href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">As a former Nats event director, I
must point out that the Master class pilots are used to judge the
Advanced AND F3A pilots, thus the problem with the number of Master
class pilots. If you use three judges on both Advanced lines,
that's six judges each session. Then, if there are four F3A lines,
that's another twelve judges. So, the first two sessions of
Advanced and F3A requires 36 Master class judges. Oh oh! we
run out of Master class judges on the third day if we only have 40
Master class pilots and nobody volunteers to judge extra sessions.
That's why Dave Guerin's hair is turning gray/falling out.
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_113274214dff1c2a_1>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>And for one year there will actually be enough judges to judge
Masters - we've always struggled with not having enough F3A pilots to
fill the Masters judging pool.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 6/13/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Jim
Woodward</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:Jim.Woodward@armorholdings.com"
target=_blank>Jim.Woodward@armorholdings.com </A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-US vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Wow –
Awesome! The Masters pilots will get a taste of judging a
highly attended FAI class! </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
W.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org </A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Derek
Koopowitz<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:41 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List; <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:dist7@nsrca.org"
target=_blank>dist7@nsrca.org</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Nats registration </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It looks like we have 115 total registered
pilots for the Nats this year (from the AMA
website)...</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Intermediate - 20</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Advanced - 16</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Masters - 40</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">FAI - 39</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Those are excellent #'s and I'm hoping that
there will still be some late entries that will raise those numbers
even more.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><BR> </DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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