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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fred,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The problem with your assumption is that you're
assuming the judges are judging box ends based off of a 60-degree angle from
them. How could they possibly be doing that? Do they have a protractor in their
pocket? The only pole is the one that is 60 degrees from center for the
pilot, not for the judges. I promise you, I drew it, I did the geometry, and
their angle to the pole is smaller (in my example the judges had 51.55 degrees
to each box end pole), reducing the size of the box. If the poles aren't there
for judges to use as referrences, why are they there at all? I'll just let them
know if I busted the box at the end of the flight... they can trust me, right?
I'm not saying the judges' chairs define the box limits, I'm well aware of the
fact that where I'm standing defines the box. The problem is, in this case the
judges failed to take into account how far back they were, used the pole as
their referrence, and downgraded me 4 points for busting the box when I didn't.
Sure, relative to the distance from me to the airplane it's a small amount, but
when the poles are used as reference points to judge box ends, the distance is
no longer negligible. Put the poles out the same distance as the aircraft, then
you can put the judges as far back as you feel, in fact it would make it easier
for them to judge the box ends then, but as long as the poles are a few feet
beyond the far side of the runway, the difference in angles is not negligible.
The parallax everyone keeps talking about lately only applies to appearance of
angles in maneuvers, it has nothing to do with the box ends, which for the
judges are perceived by their position relative to the poles; move them further
back from the poles, and the angle to the poles gets smaller... period... it's
simple geometry that we learned in 7th grade.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fhhuber@clearwire.net href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">Fred
Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 12, 2007 2:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judges'
Positioning, Zero Lines,and Box Definition</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The judges being behind the pilot... if the model is past 60
deg to the judge, its past 60 deg to the pilot. (except potentially one edge
of the box if the judge is off to the opposite side...)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The further back the judges are... the more ADDED SPACE they
will perceive as being inside the 60 deg box. The judges are tasked with
locating the box limits in relation to the pilot... not some poles that are
not at the 175 meter maximum box limit line. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If the poles are just 40 feet from the pilot, they are
only good as references for the pilot, not the judges. (even if the judges
are under 5 ft from the pilot) If the judge wants to try to use
them as reference... he has to allow for the plane to appear to have passed
the pole by however many wingspans he is behind the pilot. (which errs
slightly in favor of the pilot)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If you attend a judge's training seminar... there are
guidelines about judge positioning. The judge positioning is supposed to
be such that thier perspective will be similar to the perspective of the
pilot. The judge being 15 to 20 ft back isn't unreasonable as its a
small fracton (appx 1/35 to 1/40) of the average distance from pilot to
airplane. The difference in "parallax" between what the pilot sees and
what the judge sees will be very small. (with the judge having LESS parallax
if he's straight behind the pilot)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The judge's chair position DOES NOT define the box
limits. The pilot position (which is assigned and marked) DOES.
All of the field markings are relative to the pilot position(s).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The CD can assign the safety/zero line as the runway edge if
desired... Setting it behind the pilots is something I would not ever
recommend. Since the pilots are typically stationed fairly close to the
runway, having the edge close to the pilot be the safety line is usually
reasonable.</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mjfrederick@cox.net href="mailto:mjfrederick@cox.net">Matthew
Frederick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 12, 2007 1:29
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Judges'
Positioning, Zero Lines,and Box Definition</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK, this forum has been too quiet lately, so
let's get some controversy going! This comment/question is mainly directed
to Don Ramsey, but I would appreciate everyone's opinion. The good thing is,
Don was at the contest where what I'm about to describe happened. What I'm
talking about here is the positioning of judges behind the pilot. Under most
circumstances the judges are positioned maybe 3-5 feet behind the pilot with
each judge's seat placed on (or very close to) one of the 60-degree
lines. Now, at a contest I attended last week the judges apparently decided
it was too hot out there on the actual flight line, and they moved their
chairs about 15-20 feet behind the pilot in the shade of the shed at this
particular field. My question is, should this be something that is allowed
since the judges' chairs define the zero line of the flight line (and moving
it back this far puts spectators in danger), and also because it gives the
judges an even more skewed view of the 60-degree lines than they already
have? I bring this up partly because of what Don wrote in this month's
K-Factor, but also because I was gigged for busting the box by these
"displaced" (in Louisiana we call them refugees) judges when in fact, I
knew I was close to the edge, but since I was actually standing on the line,
I knew I didn't bust it. As a pilot I should not have to adjust the size of
the box that I'm permitted to fly in just so the judges can be more
comfortable (granted, comfort in the heat and humidity of Louisiana is
relative). I didn't bring it up at the contest because by the time it bit
me, it was too late to complain. In the future, however, I think there need
to be rules regarding the positioning of judges if there aren't already, and
if there are rules, let's bring them to light and enforce them, and you can
bet I'll refuse to fly before judges that are that far behind me. Then
again, I also think the close edge of the runway should be the zero line on
maneuvers, not the judges' chairs. I did a little (ok, a lot) of math to
figure out how much box a pilot would be missing out on with the
judges postitioned 15 feet behind him. Using approximated numbers from the
contest in question I calculated that if the poles are 40 feet out from the
pilot, and the judges are 15 feet behind the pilot, the box size at 150
meters (which is 259.81m) based on the judges' point of view is reduced
by 232.61 feet (70.9 m), or 25.2%! This would have been even greater if
the poles were closer in or the judges were further back.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
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