<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Just my 2 cents, But it’s actually intriguing to me. Most of us fly for the challenge of some sort...learning a new maneuver, bettering ourselves, beating someone else, SOME challenge. That’s why we fly pattern...otherwise we’d be sport flyers like the rest. <BR>
<BR>
I love going to the nats. Did pretty well in Advanced and Masters. But when I moved up to FAI I lost interest. My position was locked. Local events had a predetermined rank (not bias...just a large disparity in flying ability) so the motivation to practice was low. The Nats... Well, for most of us, making the finals isn’t really an option, or even a fantasy. I neither have the time nor the natural ability to fly at that level. Even if I had the large amount of time necessary to make that ginormous leap in talent level, I’d probably choose to spend it other ways (two kids). <BR>
<BR>
Sooooo...long story short, I began attending the nats more as a social event. Practice was eh...whatever. The only “Challenge” became how you placed compared to other locals competitors...similar to a local contest.<BR>
<BR>
THEN came the Semi Finals. Suddenly I have a new challenge. A new goal. Something to practice for. A reason to go to local contests and be prepared. I’m excited about pattern again, because there’s a reason to compete.<BR>
<BR>
I think a Nats qualifier would do for SOME...the same thing. Elevate the status of the competition...give people a goal..to MAKE it to the nats. To be “invited” to compete in the National Championship of their event. That’s pretty cool.<BR>
<BR>
I’m not saying it wouldn’t have down sides...and those may be larger than the upsides. But it would likely increase local participation (More current pattern flyers showing up at contests...not necessarily more NEW flyers, though I think “prestige” is a big part of why some people take the sport up, and we’ve lost that over the years)<BR>
<BR>
-Mark<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 5/1/07 8:55 AM, "Tony Stillman" <tony@radiosouthrc.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>Fred:<BR>
That has always been the draw for the TOC… Look how many people worked so hard to be eligible? <BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>Tony Stillman, President<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>Radio South<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>3702 N. Pace Blvd<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>Pensacola</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>, FL 32505<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>1-800-962-7802<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>www.radiosouthrc.com<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>
</SPAN></FONT>
<P ALIGN=CENTER>
<FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'><HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="2" WIDTH="100%"></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<P>
<FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</a> <B>On Behalf Of </B>Fred Huber<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 30, 2007 10:16 PM<BR>
<B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="5"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>It may seem backwards... but the harder someone has to work to be ALLOWED to compete, the hmore people will want to prove they are good enough to compete.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>NASCAR is a good example... its essentially impossible for "Joe Average" to get a chance to drive in the Indy 500. But you'll find thousands of dirt tracks with people trying to prove they could outdrive the guys who do get there...<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>Make something exclusive and people will work to be included.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><B>From:</B> Rick Wallace <a href="mailto:rickwallace45@hotmail.com"><mailto:rickwallace45@hotmail.com></a> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 30, 2007 12:46 PM<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'> <BR>
Agree with Ron, Mike Hester and others. What's broken here? What's the problem we're trying to fix? <BR>
For the record, Nats attendance from 1995-2006 has been dropping in all classes except Masters - trend line shows: (based on Nats attendance information from Don Ramsey's website)<BR>
Sportsman/ Intermediate trends DOWN from 21 to about 16<BR>
Advanced trends DOWN from 22 to about 19<BR>
Masters trends UP from abot 36 to about 41<BR>
FAI trends DOWN from about 39 to about 25 <BR>
<BR>
So why are we discussing qualifiers? If anything we should be discussing how to prevent the demise of Pattern? <BR>
<BR>
My $.02<BR>
Rick <BR>
NSRCA 2972<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<P ALIGN=CENTER>
<FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="2" WIDTH="100%"></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<P>
<FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>From: ronlock@comcast.net<BR>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:13:06 +0000<BR>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>Whatever we are "fixing" with a NATS qualification system, doesn't seem worth<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>the number of things that get broken by the qualification process.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>Ron Lockhart<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>
From: Gray E Fowler <gfowler@raytheon.com> <BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Tony</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">I think any kind of qualifications for the NATS is a bad idea, for several reasons. <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">1. For 99.9% of us this is a hobby. We can call it a sport, but its a hobby. Why? Because 99.9% of us work a real job, and very very few make any money from participation in this hobby. <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">2. Elevate the stature of the NATS? To who? The Canadians? The Mexicans? The Anti AMA organization who does not have a NATS? We have a "Worlds" and it requires qualification, so in essence this is already what you are asking for. Right now anyone who goes to the NATS has a higher (false) stature at the local level anyway.</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">3. Because it is a hobby, with contests run by hobbyist, and most AMA people are volunteers, I cannot imagine how in the world the AMA or NSRCA could ever organize and execute and fair qualification system. I derive this opinion based on the "many" (sarcasm) people within both the AMA and NSRCA that line up at nomination time to serve as an officer. Local AMA clubs, AMA regional reps, and especially the NSRCA has a hard time finding anyone to do day to day work. If you volunteer to be nominated, you can almost be assured that you can be President.... Heck the NSRCA is so loaded with politics that officers quit in the middle of terms, and people execute personal agendas both in the rules formation and even personal aspects at the NATS. AMA and NSRCA should only promote to increase participation.</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">4. There are some who may only attend the NATS and do well and even win. Why would we want to make them a! ttend l ocal stuff to qualify when they do not need it. This applies mostly the top FAI guys. They do not need the local level to excel, and they can step in at the NATS and kick eveyone's butt. Why inconvienience them from their job, family or whatever? If they can show up at the NATS and win is that not still getting the best?</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">5. Last-I used to be much more involved with pattern than I am now. My kids are of the age that it is more important to spend time doing their activities than mine, as they will be gone before I realize it. I cannot make 6-7 contests (in 6 months) like I used to, and making the NATS is tough too, but if I did decide that I could make the NATS, the last thing I would want to worry about is having to make 3 contests in a row to "qualify" for the NATS. Actually this point is the same as #1-its a HOBBY. Those whom want different move up to FAI and "qualify" for the Worlds.</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">A suggestion.....</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Start with the FAI USA team. Why does that selection contest allow whomever wants to show up fly at that contest? Implement a qualification sytem for the USA team selection contest first. The Semi-Pros (not so sure we have 100% "pros" anywhere) in these ranks should love it, because then those top 6 (who are we kidding... it may only be 5 who truly have a chance) nationwide flyers going for those 3 spots do not have to sit thru 3 days of wannabe FAI schmoes.</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">I cannot imagine that a qualification system would do anything but hurt NATS attendence. I do not understand the point of it at all. The NAT is not overloaded. I agree that it is not bad to discuss anything, but if you really think this is a #1 priority topic (I have not seen any others tossed out there), then I think it shows your personal disconnect with the AMA pattern community,402,403,404. <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><BR>
< FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Signed, <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Peace, Love and Smarter Missiles.........</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR>
<BR>
Gray Fowler<BR>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>
Radomes and Specialty Apetures<BR>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<BR>
Raytheon</FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma"> <BR>
--Forwarded Message Attachment--<BR>
From: gfowler@raytheon.com<BR>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1<BR>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:21:39 +0000<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Courier New">_______________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>
<BR>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P ALIGN=CENTER>
<FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="2" WIDTH="100%"></FONT></SPAN></FONT>
<P>
<FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><FONT FACE="Tahoma">_______________________________________________<BR>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
</FONT></SPAN></FONT>
<P ALIGN=CENTER>
<FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="2" WIDTH="100%"></FONT></SPAN></FONT>
<P>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/781 - Release Date: 4/30/2007 9:14 AM<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"></SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'>_______________________________________________<BR>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>