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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regarding last years 2006 NATS Banquet numbers...to
the best of my recollection, the NSRCA collected between $2000 and $2100 for the
banquet @ the $25 per person. The President of the NSRCA coordinated the
location with the AMA and determined the cost to attend. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do not know "how" the 150 head count was
determined or verified. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Both the AMA and each SIG were surprised by the
total costs of their respective event. The hotel did not forward any of
the invoices to the AMA...so I called the AMA to inquire about the cost (the
first inquiry by any of the SIG's), expecting an amount of around $2,500,
based on information I was given at the NATS. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Obviously, the amount was significantly higher and
appropriate steps are being taken in 2008.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rusty Dose</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>NSRCA Treasurer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>11/05 - 2006</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=derekkoopowitz@gmail.com href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">Derek
Koopowitz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA
contrubution to nationals</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Here are our projected income numbers:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=1>
<P align=left>Nats Income</P>
<P align=left>Banquet 3,000.00</P></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#ff0000
size=1></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=1>
<P align=left>NSRCA Share 6,050.00</P></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#ff0000 size=1></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=1>
<P align=left>TOTAL Nats Income 9,050.00</P></FONT><BR><BR>I can't give
you last years numbers at the moment - it'll have to wait until I get
home. I'm not even sure I can give you an accurate count of the # of
attendees at last years banquet either.
<P align=left>Eric raises some very good concerns/points about the cost of the
Nats and whether this is a feasible option to "outsource" it to other venues
(aside from Muncie).</P>
<P align=left> </P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 5/2/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Grow
Pattern</B> <<A
href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net">pattern4u@comcast.net</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A budget also needs to have projected income
side by side with the projected costs. It would be easier to
read.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The NSRCA banquet should break
approximately even. It is not a free lunch (sorry about that one !)
T</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>he ticket price should closely match
the food cost. No argument from me there. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In Muncie you can get a heck of a good steak
for $25-35. I found it hard to sell banquet tickets at $25, even
using Michelle as my ticket agent, especially when it was a
Tuesday night banquet - [not intending or trying to open that Pandora's
box]. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The NSRCA eats (I did it again) the cost of the
hall etc. because it is also an NSRCA annual meeting and that should go in
meeting expenses. In 2005 we grouped the meeting and food costs together.
There were some special recognition awards etc. as well. After the
NSRCA got their piece from the FAI auction the total cost of the 2005
meetings and meals was within a few dollars of the money that was collected.
Basically the meeting costs were subsidized by the auction. (Most of the
auction money went to the FAI team.) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That was how we did it then. Keep the nominal
account for the banquet in another "bucket!"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The money from the AMA entrance fees was
used for the competition event only. It is easier if you account for
the "entertainment separately and don't confuse the contest budget. It is
almost a red herring. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Without the Banquet-piece the Nats 2007
total budget requirement is $6750 which translates to 112.5 people needed to
compete in the 2007 Nationals.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Soooooooooooooooo! - I know, where was I going
with all of this? - here it comes........................ There is a point
where we can't afford to run the Pattern Nationals at these rates and fees
at Muncie. but it still begs the question, " <STRONG>Where could we afford
to do it and what would the fees have to be?".</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We should be looking at the mission
and the quality of the event, the attractiveness, the feasibility, the
goals and many other issues. You need good figures and spending
rationale to get this stuff right, not just stumble into the next change.
Maybe there should be qualifiers that people can get to? If picked, most
people will then go wherever, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know this much, it is way more complicated
than a statement of a loss here or a banquet there. It requires real
financial skill and planning awareness to pull something off this big
and run it at and above the level we have been doing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am really glad that it's not my
problem.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><BR>Eric.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>P.S. Thanks to you all who wrote to me off-list. I appreciate that
you saw that I was opening up the thinking and not just accepting
blanket number statements. To those of you who got mad at me again. Sorry,
my bad! It was not my intent, but if you don't blow smoke etc.
then I won't try and clear it away - Eric, </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_1124ece7f9f18916_1>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
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<DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>Here is our budget (May K-F):</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><FONT face=Arial size=1>
<P align=left>NATS Expenses</P>
<P align=left>Awards 800.00</P>
<P align=left>Banquet 3,500.00</P>
<P align=left>Event Director 600.00</P>
<P align=left>Impound Personnel 300.00</P>
<P align=left>Judges 1,000.00</P>
<P align=left>Line Manager Site 1 240.00</P>
<P align=left>Line Manager Site 3 240.00</P>
<P align=left>Line Manager Site 4 240.00</P>
<P align=left>Meeting Expenses 350.00</P>
<P align=left>NSCRA Award BBQ 1,000.00</P>
<P align=left>Planning Meeting 450.00</P>
<P align=left>Postage 80.00</P>
<P align=left>Scoring HQ 300.00</P>
<P align=left>Scoring Site 4 180.00</P>
<P align=left>Site 1 Site Director 240.00</P>
<P align=left>Site 3 Site Director 240.00</P>
<P align=left>Site 4 Site Director 240.00</P>
<P align=left>Supplies 250.00</P>
<P align=left>TOTAL NATS Expenses 10,250.00</P>
<DIV></DIV></FONT>Hopefully we break even on this...
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 5/2/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Grow
Pattern</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:pattern4u@comcast.net"
target=_blank>pattern4u@comcast.net </A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV>What I worry and wonder about the most is how we just
accept a number and then beat the death out of something when
there is no real data, or the data is suspect or even
wrong in the first place. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The first number that I read was that the AMA lost $25K running
the Nat's. Then later on I read that they had not been tracking it
very well. That should immediately raise a doubt about the number of
$25K.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Then I began to wonder if the number included the two
locations that are used to run the Nat's. (Not all of te
Nat's is run at Muncie). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Then I thought about the running costs of the AMA site at
Muncie. <STRONG>After all, It runs whether the Nat's are there or
not.</STRONG> So if we extract ONLY the additional
Nationals related costs only, what are they really? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Beyond the field, maintenance what is the EXTRA
cost to the AMA associated with the running all of the events that
constitute a Nationals. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Then I asked myself what are the costs related to
<STRONG>just running PATTERN</STRONG>. Do they have contest
related equipment already, or do they buy new stuff such as tents
etc. just for us. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- I know that they put out the box poles and provide
some PA equipment, but are extra summer workers hired for just
us? and what is the cost for the four days that we are
there.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>======================================================================================================================</DIV>
<DIV>In my business life I have seen numbers used to prove many
a point ,but almost every time the numbers did not hold up to
close examination.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In our case (pattern). In 2005 we raised around $10,400 in
pattern entry fees. ( I say "around" because there are a few
late-entry fee entries that are twice the normal fee and are hard to
track). Our important number is that we received $ $6755 from the
AMA after they took their cut. The AMA's important number is that
they receive the balance which as a round number of was in the
region of $3600. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is that enough to cover what we cost them? The year before
the AMA claimed that they had lost $12,000 running the Nat's. Now it
is a $25,000 loss. The only action that I know of that
took place was to increase the AMA entrance fee portion by
$10. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- What is more important is to ask what; </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>a) Difference did the fee increase make, and </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>b) Why did the costs still go up so much.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>c) Was anything done to reduce costs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The real problem is that what you are being fed as factual
money data is "roll-up-accounting" at its worst. The devil may be in
the details but so is the answer. You cannot solve a fiscal problem
if you don't know which part is failing or broken. </DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>======================================================================================================================</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Accounting roll-ups are the real emery of all good
decision making. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let me give you a small example of what I mean. I am
familiar with the Pattern Nat's banquet. I read in the K-factor that
the banquet cost was too high and that another venue, [probably the
golf club] would be used again. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The number used was something like $34 a head and we should not
subsidize the meal. This looked similar to the 2005 number that I
managed. On the surface of it looked like good logic. BUT I
happen to know also that a bunch of other costs were dumped into the
"banquet bucket" in 2005. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The true cost of the banquet meal is the vendor charge
minus the money collected for meal tickets. In short,we
collected $2,560 from 112.5 people. (This was comprised of
adult meals, kids meals and 10 comp. tickets for people
like the Event director plus wife, AMA Contest director
plus wife, other key AMA officials and the HQ scoring staff plus
guest. The tickets were $25 per head. The NSRCA
subsidized the actual meal by $250. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now for the hidden costs! the NSRCA holds and hosts a
general meeting at the Banquet so it eats the costs for the hall
($200 and microphone/podium stuff etc.) reasonable so far. Then you
add any trophies and awards etc. Then the cost for the NSRCA board
meeting the night before, (we feed them way past midnight) was put
in there. And then the costs for the finals "free" meal and awards
ceremony. [Note- NSRCA trophies we pay for. AMA trophies we do not].
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>All of these relatively small items gradually pushed the
"roll-up accounting banquet" number up to nearly $4000. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now you have a number that you can divide, say by 115
contestants and you get $34. It is a good number that good people
can and will tie their argument to, but it is just plain WRONG
data that give a wrong conclusion. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Back to the shop.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Eric. <FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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