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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This thread was originally talking about having sportsman level
compete at NATS effectively increasing participation. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>- Robert Beaubien<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>- AMA #618061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>- NSRCA #4121<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rick
Wallace<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 30, 2007 11:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List; Bill Markovitz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Tony - thanks for the clarification. <br>
<br>
Here's my train of thought -which led to looking at the numbers I sent -<br>
<br>
>From the time I was a kid in the 60's I used to read about National Champ's
where anyone could go to the Nats who wanted to. And that was really cool. I
also remember, as an R/C enthusiast and Pattern wannabe driving long distances
to places like Seguin, TX and Westover, MA just to be at the Nats for a little
while, and maybe see some great flying. <br>
<br>
That was a real kick for me - just to be there while the contest was happening.
--and to be able to compete that was a whole new level of high! <br>
<br>
The ability for anyone to go and compete in the Nats seems like a tremendous
'plus' for Pattern. Conversely, if there are qualification 'gates', then that
closes off another possible attraction of Pattern, and makes the Nats just another
dis-incentive for a guy considering flying Pattern - or continuing to fly
Pattern. <br>
<br>
The whole idea of 'qualifiers' seems to be a path to limiting Nats attendance -
yes? Is that not the main idea of the <br>
<br>
And if we're talking about limiting Nats participation, then I assumed that
there are 'too many' (by some measure) guys attending the Nats. If there
aren't 'too many' guys attending the Nats, then why is there a discussion about
qualifiying or limiting attendance? <br>
<br>
If I've misunderstood the thrust of the conversation, I apologize, but believe
strongly that there's a good reason to keep the Nats open to all. If anything
we should be working to get out 'rain day' back to prevent guys in some future
Nats from driving a loooong way, only to have a day of rain wipe out theit
finals.... <br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks- <br>
Rick <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From: tony@radiosouthrc.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:02:43 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I guess I don’t understand. How does the NATS effect the
demise of pattern? The NATS is a national championships. If we have
400 or 20, how does that lead to the increase or demise? </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>All I am discussion is the WAY that we run the NATS. </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>JUST FOR THE RECORD… This is NOT on the table as a projected
change for the NATS for any time in the future. This is just a discussion
topic on how the Nats COULD be changed. </span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=ecmsoautosig><span style='color:navy'>Tony Stillman, President</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsoautosig><span style='color:navy'>Radio South</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsoautosig><span style='color:navy'>3702 N. Pace Blvd</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsoautosig><span style='color:navy'>Pensacola</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy'>, FL
32505</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsoautosig><span style='color:navy'>1-800-962-7802</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsoautosig><span style='color:navy'>www.radiosouthrc.com</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=ecmsonormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rick
Wallace<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 30, 2007 12:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=ecmsonormal> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=ecmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Agree with Ron, Mike Hester and
others. What's broken here? What's the problem we're trying to fix? <br>
For the record, Nats attendance from 1995-2006 has been dropping in all classes
except Masters - trend line shows: (based on Nats attendance information from
Don Ramsey's website)<br>
Sportsman/ Intermediate trends DOWN from 21 to about 16<br>
Advanced trends DOWN from 22 to about 19<br>
Masters trends UP from abot 36 to about 41<br>
FAI trends DOWN from about 39 to about 25 <br>
<br>
So why are we discussing qualifiers? If anything we should be discussing how to
prevent the demise of Pattern? <br>
<br>
My $.02<br>
Rick <br>
NSRCA 2972<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=ecmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From: ronlock@comcast.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:13:06 +0000<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1/Prefer No Qualification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Whatever
we are "fixing" with a NATS qualification system, doesn't seem worth<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>the
number of things that get broken by the qualification process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Ron
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=ecmsonormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>--------------
Original message -------------- <br>
From: Gray E Fowler <gfowler@raytheon.com> <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Tony</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I think
any kind of qualifications for the NATS is a bad idea, for several reasons. </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1. For
99.9% of us this is a hobby. We can call it a sport, but its a hobby. Why?
Because 99.9% of us work a real job, and very very few make any money from
participation in this hobby. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2.
Elevate the stature of the NATS? To who? The Canadians? The Mexicans? The Anti
AMA organization who does not have a NATS? We have a "Worlds"
and it requires qualification, so in essence this is already what you are
asking for. Right now anyone who goes to the NATS has a higher (false) stature
at the local level anyway.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"s","serif"'>3. Because it is
a hobby, with contests run by hobbyist, and most AMA people are volunteers, I
cannot imagine how in the world the AMA or NSRCA could ever organize and
execute and fair qualification system. I derive this opinion based on the
"many" (sarcasm) people within both the AMA and NSRCA that line up at
nomination time to serve as an officer. Local AMA clubs, AMA regional
reps, and especially the NSRCA has a hard time finding anyone to do day to day
work. If you volunteer to be nominated, you can almost be assured that you can
be President.... Heck the NSRCA is so loaded with politics that
officers quit in the middle of terms, and people execute personal agendas both
in the rules formation and even personal aspects at the NATS. AMA and NSRCA
should only promote to increase participation.</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>4. There
are some who may only attend the NATS and do well and even win. Why would we
want to make them a! ttend l ocal stuff to qualify when they do not need it.
This applies mostly the top FAI guys. They do not need the local level to
excel, and they can step in at the NATS and kick eveyone's butt. Why
inconvienience them from their job, family or whatever? If they can show
up at the NATS and win is that not still getting the best?</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>5.
Last-I used to be much more involved with pattern than I am now. My kids are of
the age that it is more important to spend time doing their activities than
mine, as they will be gone before I realize it. I cannot make 6-7 contests (in
6 months) like I used to, and making the NATS is tough too, but if I did decide
that I could make the NATS, the last thing I would want to worry about is
having to make 3 contests in a row to "qualify" for the NATS.
Actually this point is the same as #1-its a HOBBY. Those whom want different
move up to FAI and "qualify" for the Worlds.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans","serif"'>A
suggestion.....</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Start
with the FAI USA team. Why does that selection contest allow whomever wants to
show up fly at that contest? Implement a qualification sytem for the USA team
selection contest first. The Semi-Pros (not so sure we have 100%
"pros" anywhere) in these ranks should love it, because then those
top 6 (who are we kidding... it may only be 5 who truly have a chance)
nationwide flyers going for those 3 spots do not have to sit thru 3 days of
wannabe FAI schmoes.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I cannot
imagine that a qualification system would do anything but hurt NATS attendence.
I do not understand the point of it at all. The NAT is not overloaded. I
agree that it is not bad to discuss anything, but if you really think this is a
#1 priority topic (I have not seen any others tossed out there), then I think
it shows your personal disconnect with the AMA pattern community,402,403,404. </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
< FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Signed, <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Peace,
Love and Smarter Missiles.........</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apetures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=ecmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>--Forwarded Message Attachment--<br>
From: gfowler@raytheon.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1<br>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:21:39 +0000<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
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