<html><body>
<DIV>Yes, I understood and I agree. I guess that I need to check at the field since I have been forcing to do the rolls in the center when I was starting too early. You are correct, if we want to build a long line the radius of the loop has to be smaller and the rolls needs to be done before the center. After looking the drawings again, I think I have been starting the maneuver too early. I will change it to start the push closer to the center and get the lines shorter and the loop bigger. There is a trade off but I think looks better. It is very possible that will still look better with the rolls in the center but the trick is avoiding to start the push too early. I think that has been the problem. Well now we have to take these from drawings board to the field. I am sure that it is going to be interesting.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Rick Wallace <rickwallace45@hotmail.com> <BR>
<STYLE>
P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</STYLE>
Vince, Fred - <BR>The pilot can vary any of the elements of the maneuver and get lots of different effects. <BR>Start higher and the lines can be longer. -<BR>Start the maneuver (push 45) and the crossover point will be sooner than if you push closer to center. <BR>the radius of the bottom 3/4 loop (and therefore the size of the loop and the size left for your 45 lines) should match the radius of your initial push. <BR> <BR>By varying start altitude, start location relative to center, and loop segment radius you can get many different 'looks' for this maneuver, and many different positions for a properly centered 1/2 roll on properly angled 45 down and up lines.<BR>for really long 45's, start very high, very early, with very small loop segment radii... probly wouldn't look too great, and might stress the airframe a bit depending on speed and radius of that bottom loop... :) <BR> <BR>And you're right- the ground does present a hard limit on all of the above...
<BR> <BR>
<HR>
rom: fhhuber@clearwire.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:32:56 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] K-Factor Maneuver description and judging<BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator>
<STYLE>
</STYLE>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=2>you are correct. The rolls would have to be VERY FAST to have any definable straight segment before and after if the centered in the 45 line roll is below the crosspoint.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Exagerated 45's gives time to positively establish the 45 segment, roll, then have an equal straight segment. Roll comes out above the crossover that way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Start HIGH, push early... no downgrade. (but watch out for trees.... because they'll downgrade your day)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I haven't read the sequence to see where the reverse golfball is... but I assume it starts after a maneuver that ends at top of box. If thats true and you use a relatively tight radius, you could have a LONG "V" above the crossover.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=vicenterc@comcast.net href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:46 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] K-Factor Maneuver description and judging</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Richard for opening this discussion. I decided to draw it in a piece of paper. It makes a huge difference when you draw the options. I had been forcing the rolls in the middle but I knew that my lines before the rolls were longer and since I was trying to show a good line before the roll. If I fly equal lines before and after the roll keeping the rolls in the center my plane will be going below ground and I didn't want that. For that single reason, I really was having problems in practice but I could not figure it out since I was trying to force the rolls in the middle. It appears to me that the best way to do it is by flying the rolls before the center of the maneuver but I could be wrong. If we try to roll after the center the lines have to be very short. Am I right? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=EC_signature id=EC_signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "richard wallace" <rickwallace45@gmail.com> <BR>
<DIV>It's working: early-season discussion of new maneuvers. Perfect!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In our early discussions, one of the authors of the sequence protested that he'd envisioned the 1/2 rolls crossing at center, and just last weekend when I was practicing, I automatically tried to position and size the maneuver so that the 1/2 rolls WOULD be on center... but they don't have to be for a max score. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wayne and Matt nailed it - the maneuver description simply states that the the rolls are centered on the 45 lines, not that they occur in the center of the maneuver -- and there's a difference between the two. It is possible to fly this one correctly in several ways, and each way should be judged accordingly. As judges we'll need to score against the maneuver description which is the standard, not a mental image or set of assumptions... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Keep it coming -this is great! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rick </DIV>
<DIV>and btw, it IS all Anthony's fault, like he said! <BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=EC_gmail_quote>On 4/2/07, <B class=EC_gmail_sendername><A href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A></B> <<A href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">
<DIV>
<DIV>The issue was debated by several of us who contributed to the definitions. The maneuver description doesn't say nor does it imply that the rolls must be on the center pole, although THAT IS ONE OPTION. The drawings and explanations are correct as indicated. Wayne is correct about the radii of looping elements </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MattK</DIV><SPAN class=q>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/2/2007 4:01:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, <A href="mailto:wgalligan@goodsonacura.com">wgalligan@goodsonacura.com</A> writes: </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>The rolls just need to be in the center of the line segment of each 45 line. <BR>The whole maneuver including line segments must be on center. The half <BR>rolls will not necessarily intersect at exactly center pole or on top of <BR>each other, but the lines of the 45 cross or intersect at center. The 1/8 <BR>push radius and looping segment have equal radius.<BR><BR>>From what I have learned... <BR><BR>Wayne</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR>
See what's free at <A title=http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503 href="http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503" target=_blank>AOL.com</A>. </FONT></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org </A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
<P><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
<HR>
<P><BR>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007 8:49 PM<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>