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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dean, I am going to dig it out and look, but i
believe the Full Scale judging book does put the onus on the pilot.I'll check on
it. I know some info I got from them a while ago read that way.It was part of
their "Judging Evaluation" process.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'll look and see if I kept it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anywho I totally agree that if the pilot wants the
best scores -over time- he needs to show his skill not throw it at you. Your
analogy to "Craftsmanship" is really appropiate!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:02
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>Hi
Fred,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>There is another whole
aspect to the judging world!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>We always discuss WHAT to
judge ... and we should.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>HOW to judge gets
stickier, and I have seen, over the years, a handful of pilots
score</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>remarkably well by
utilizing flying styles that rush both maneuver elements and the
judges.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>We always tend to blame
ourselves if we can't see what is supposed to be there, rather than blaming
others.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>That is civilized
behavior: people who start out by assuming the opposite are called
sociopaths.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>Well, a good judge is
maybe just a little bit sociopathic. (temporary insanity?)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>Let me go back to Matt
K.'s statement of two or so days ago, when he</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>said that the onus
is on the pilot to clearly demonstrate the good stuff to the
judge,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>and not on the judge to
pick out the good stuff in the midst of a poor
presentation.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>You won't find this
explicitly in any rule book, but common sense tells us that a real
workman</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>proudly displays his good
work so that it can best be admired, rather than hiding it in the middle of
confusion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>If you were judging
a debate, would you have to give someone the benefit of the doubt because
they mumbled? </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT
face=Arial>Heck NO!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>The mumbler gets
downgraded.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>Rushing is
like mumbling ...come to think of it it isn't like mumbling,
it <EM>is</EM> aero-mumbling.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>Off my
soapbox,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=831334814-01032007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Fred
Huber<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I caught all kinds of flack at judging training
session for downgrading because a VERY well known pilit did a blazing fast
4-point....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>All other judge trainees said 10... I said 0... the points
weren't full stops.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gene.maurice@sgmservice.com
href="mailto:gene.maurice@sgmservice.com">Gene Maurice</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=randy10926@comtekmail.com
href="mailto:randy10926@comtekmail.com">randy10926@comtekmail.com</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 28, 2007
1:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If the points are
so fast as to make it indiscernible what angle they occurred at, then I
would tend to doubt whether the point occurred at all. Score 0. It is the
pilot’s responsibility to present the maneuver in such a manner to
demonstrate that the maneuver has in fact been done according to the
rules. I sincerely doubt that a 4 point can be done in 1.25 seconds with
defined stops in the roll every 90 degrees. But it remains that if, as a
judge, you cannot clearly see the relevant elements of any maneuver being
performed, then you should assume that IT HAS NOT been performed. The
elements must be demonstrated not assumed. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Don Ramsey, can
you clarify?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Gene
Maurice<BR>gene.maurice@sgmservice.com<BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Plano</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">TX</st1:State></st1:place><BR>AMA 3408, NSRCA
877</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Glenn
Hatfield<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday,
February 28, 2007 10:24 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discuss list <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ok time to get back to our
favorite list questions.<BR><BR>This comes from a real life judging
problem. The question is about the 4-point roll. This what I
am seeing. A 4 point roll that takes less than 1.25 second to
complete. You can see 4 very short pauses. The manever appears
to be centered. I see no change in height or coming in or out.
It appears to be between 150M and 175M. But the pauses are so short
that I cannot really tell if the rolls between pauses are 90
degrees. So I cannot see what the 1 point per 15 degree down grade
should be.<BR><BR><BR>What would you
do?<BR><BR><BR>Randy<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P>
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