<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;">Just my guess. He seems to fly the 4 point faster than I can fly a simple roll. I have my plane setup for 2 rolls in 3 secs. We have even run a stop watch on my plane.<BR><BR>It is amazing to watch the sticks move when he flies this. His plane is set-up with bigger throws and less expo than mine.<BR><BR>Randy<BR><BR>--- mrandmrst@comcast.net wrote:<BR><BR>From: "Ken Thompson" <mrandmrst@comcast.net><BR>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question<BR>Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:06:05 -0600<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">I'm curious to see the timing method to corroborate
the 1.25 second timeframe...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>From:</B>
<A title="randy10926@comtekmail.com">Randy hatfield</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 28, 2007 7:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">It was interesting watching him fly it during a
round I was not judging. The stick was moving back and forth as fast as
it could be moved. I felt he was flying in a style to make it hard to
find errors; not a manner to present all the elements. But can you
really prove that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">Interesting comments. As the judge it is
your decision to make.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">Randy </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<DIV style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>From:</B>
<A title="gene.maurice@sgmservice.com">Gene Maurice</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 28, 2007 5:47
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">I the case you
mention I would agree. The maneuver is a half square with a 2 of 4 point.
The point roll is but a single point and only one element of the maneuver.
In the case of the four point roll, miss one I would SIGNIFICANTLY
downgrade, 5-6 points, miss more than one then its a zero. Because 1)
multiple major errors, 2) its no longer the defined maneuver. I made and
assumption in my statement that multiple points were missed.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">As someone else
stated, Id like to see the pilot that could execute a 1.25 second 4 point
poll correctly. Then Id like to meet the judge that could actually
ascertain that all of the elements necessary were present and executed
correctly. The point I was trying to make is that it is the pilots
responsibility to show the elements of the maneuver. As a judge, if you
didnt clearly see it, it didnt happen, ergo it becomes a missed element of
the maneuver. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Gene
Maurice<BR>gene.maurice@sgmservice.com<BR>Plano, TX<BR>AMA 3408, NSRCA
877</SPAN></FONT></P><P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="text-align: center;" align="center"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="font-size: 12pt;">
<HR align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Lisa &
Larry<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday,
February 28, 2007 4:07 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">To:</SPAN></B> 'NSRCA
Mailing List'<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question</SPAN></FONT></P><P></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="font-size: 12pt;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Last year I scored
a zero for not hesitating on a point roll in a ½ square w/ 2/4 point. The
pilot approached me and asked about the zero. In our discussion the pilot
asked if I blinked. I couldnt rule out that I may have but I didnt see the
hesitation and I could score it as such. After talking to a couple of folks,
I learned that a zero isnt warranted on the basis of -no hesitation- for a
point roll. After talking with the CD I did correct my score based on the
rule outlined on page RCA-20 for Rolls, note 4. Pretty close to the same
wording as last year. I wanted to make sure I scored it correctly based on
what I saw.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">So I learned two
things on that day
One, make sure I dont blink when judging point
rolls
Two, not hesitating on a point rolls is not a zero although it should
be a severe downgrade of 5 or more points.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Larry</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="text-align: center;" align="center"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="font-size: 12pt;">
<HR align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Gene Maurice<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, February 28, 2007 1:38
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">To:</SPAN></B> randy10926@comtekmail.com; 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Question</SPAN></FONT></P><P></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="font-size: 12pt;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">If the points are
so fast as to make it indiscernible what angle they occurred at, then I
would tend to doubt whether the point occurred at all. Score 0. It is the
pilots responsibility to present the maneuver in such a manner to
demonstrate that the maneuver has in fact been done according to the rules.
I sincerely doubt that a 4 point can be done in 1.25 seconds with defined
stops in the roll every 90 degrees. But it remains that if, as a judge, you
cannot clearly see the relevant elements of any maneuver being performed,
then you should assume that IT HAS NOT been performed. The elements must be
demonstrated not assumed. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Don Ramsey, can you
clarify?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Gene
Maurice<BR>gene.maurice@sgmservice.com<BR>Plano, TX<BR>AMA 3408, NSRCA
877</SPAN></FONT></P><P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="text-align: center;" align="center"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="font-size: 12pt;">
<HR align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Glenn Hatfield<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, February 28, 2007
10:24 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">To:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discuss
list <BR><B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question</SPAN></FONT></P><P></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="font-size: 12pt;"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Arial" size="2"><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Ok time to get back to our
favorite list questions.<BR><BR>This comes from a real life judging
problem. The question is about the 4-point roll. This what I am
seeing. A 4 point roll that takes less than 1.25 second to
complete. You can see 4 very short pauses. The manever appears
to be centered. I see no change in height or coming in or out.
It appears to be between 150M and 175M. But the pauses are so short
that I cannot really tell if the rolls between pauses are 90 degrees.
So I cannot see what the 1 point per 15 degree down grade should
be.<BR><BR><BR>What would you
do?<BR><BR><BR>Randy</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P>
</P><HR>
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