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<DIV>
<DIV>Finally!!!! With all the talk about smaller models, someone says it
like it is.... Restrictions cause problems with compliance....
Creativity</DIV>
<DIV>becomes very technological.... You want to make it easy for beginners
to get there feet wet? Keep doing what we are already doing...</DIV>
<DIV>Sportsman can fly any AMA legal airplane, and Sportsman fly for
free.... That's the best, cheapest way there is!!!!! Whenever I
retire a 2 meter, </DIV>
<DIV>I sell it to a flyer in one of the lower classes for a rediculously low
price, or give it to them....</DIV>
<DIV>Besides, I sort of like my 2 meters.... I want more of
them!!!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rex</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">Fred
Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:43
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small
Models ... good forthefutureofthePattern Event?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>There's a check-in logistics nightmare for the
CD's....<BR><BR>As is, we aren't having to be very picky about checking the
planes being <BR>flown at local Pattern events. (partly because we have
a lot of honest <BR>competitors... Partly because its so easy to catch an
oversize/overweight <BR>2-meter plane)<BR><BR>We don't have to check engine
displacements... or see what fuel is being <BR>used by who... we don't have to
come up with some formula to figure out when <BR>an E-power plane has too much
power to be allowed in Sportsman.... (What <BR>wattage motor REALLY equals a
.60 2 stroke for flight performance?)<BR><BR>Tower/Hobbico just annonced a
brushless electric RTF package deal TRAINER <BR>thats as big as a Kadet
LT.... We WILL be dealing with E-Power beginners, <BR>and E-power in
Sportsman more and more.<BR><BR>Any change you make to the size and weight
limits is going to create mor <BR>problems than will be solved.<BR><BR>Adding
a power limit is a step backward, not forward. The Geni is out of
<BR>the bottle regarding power... you can't stuff that one
back.<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Adrien L Terrenoire"
<<A title=mailto:amad2terry@juno.com
href="mailto:amad2terry@juno.com">amad2terry@juno.com</A>><BR>To: <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Cc:
<<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Thursday, January 04, 2007 7:05 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small
Models ... good for <BR>thefutureofthePattern Event?<BR><BR><BR>> How about
a graduated increase in size??<BR>> All Sportsmen entrys must be .60, or
less. .90 four stroke, with maybe a<BR>> weigh limit of 9 lb.<BR>>
Intermediate can use up to 1.20 4 stroke, or maybe a .90 2 stroke. 10
lb<BR>> limit?<BR>> In advance, let it open up.<BR>> Some
logic:<BR>> Smaller, less costly planes in lower classes. The Sportsman
planes can be<BR>> used in Intermediate, and can be competitive for the
first year or 2. A<BR>> loarger plane can be built that wil take them into
the Advance class for<BR>> a year or so. Then the committment can be made
to go "big time". All done<BR>> on a gradual basis. Electronicss could be
moved from plane to plane. If<BR>> built light enough, the Int plane at 10
lb with a 1.20 could have a 1.40<BR>> dropped in for the move to
Adv.<BR>><BR>> Terry T.<BR>><BR>> On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:32:34
-0500 "Ed Miller" <<A title=mailto:edbon85@charter.net
href="mailto:edbon85@charter.net">edbon85@charter.net</A>><BR>>
writes:<BR>>> I think the fact there are a slew of 60 to 90 sized
pattern arfs<BR>>> readily<BR>>> available at a sub $300 price tag
will motivate newbies more than<BR>>> the<BR>>> cumbersome size
issue. If or when a newbie gets hooked, the size<BR>>> issue,
or<BR>>> lack there of, then is an added benefit. Problem is and
we've all<BR>>> been<BR>>> there is the question "what do I need
to compete with". There you<BR>>> stand<BR>>> touting all
the good 60 to 90 size planes out there while trying to<BR>>>
hide<BR>>> your guppy 2M plane of the week............<BR>>> Ed
M.<BR>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>> From: "Dean Pappas"
<<A title=mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A>><BR>>> To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the<BR>>>
futureofthePattern Event?<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> > Thanks
Jay,<BR>>> > That's why I posted to the list. Between the whole lot
of us, we<BR>>> can get<BR>>> > some coverage.<BR>>> >
Maybe it begs the issue of how to find newbies in the first place<BR>>>
( silly<BR>>> > grin ) but you might start at the regular club
meeting/field.<BR>>> > Aren't there guys who watch and comment on
your Pattern stuff, but<BR>>> don't<BR>>> > get into the event,
in your local club?<BR>>> > Ask them if they think the entry barrier
would change for them or<BR>>> someone<BR>>> > like them. They
may be closer to that prospective newbie than you<BR>>> are.<BR>>>
> They may come back and say that the practice discipline is
why<BR>>> they will<BR>>> > never do it,<BR>>> > and
others may come back and say, "Wow smaller/cheaper planes that<BR>>> fit
in<BR>>> > my car and my apartmenmt workshop! I'm in!"<BR>>>
> I doubt you'll get such clear feedback, but you might get<BR>>>
something.<BR>>> > later,<BR>>> > Dean<BR>>>
><BR>>> ><BR>>> > Dean Pappas<BR>>> > Sr. Design
Engineer<BR>>> > Kodeos Communications<BR>>> > 111 Corporate
Blvd.<BR>>> > South Plainfield, N.J. 07080<BR>>> > (908)
222-7817 phone<BR>>> > (908) 222-2392 fax<BR>>> > <A
title=mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A><BR>>>
><BR>>> ><BR>>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>>>
> From: <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
Jay<BR>>> > Marshall<BR>>> > Sent: Thursday, January 04,
2007 1:58 PM<BR>>> > To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR>>> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the<BR>>>
future<BR>>> > ofthePattern Event?<BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>>> > Dean, you bring up a very good point. Most of us are
seeped in the<BR>>> 2m<BR>>> > venue.<BR>>> > We
should really be talking to prospective new flyers. How do we<BR>>> do
that?<BR>>> ><BR>>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>>>
> From: <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf
Of<BR>>> Dean Pappas<BR>>> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007
1:09 PM<BR>>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the<BR>>> future
of<BR>>> > thePattern Event?<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Hi
Anthony,<BR>>> > Hi All,<BR>>> > Forget the implementational
details for now. Stop trying to<BR>>> Engineer it,<BR>>> >
we<BR>>> > are doing Marketting.<BR>>> > If it helps to get
in the right frame of mind, take a few stiff<BR>>> drinks
and<BR>>> > bang your head on the workbench about ten
times.<BR>>> > If we decide that it's worthwhile, then there are a
zillion ways<BR>>> to make<BR>>> > the<BR>>> >
transition and to also grandfather existing planes for several<BR>>>
years.<BR>>> > That's not the issue, at least not for
now.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Changing the shape of the event: just
for "something to do" would<BR>>> be an<BR>>> > awful waste of
energy and needless turmoil.<BR>>> > We all dislike wasted energy,
and I hope that we all agree that<BR>>> needless<BR>>> >
turmoil is to be avoided.<BR>>> > I really want to focus on the basic
question. Will making Pattern<BR>>> ships<BR>>> > smaller lead
to increased future participation in the event?<BR>>> > If the answer
isn't YES, then the grief probably ain't worth it.<BR>>>
><BR>>> > So far, I am hearing a mixed bag, and a whole lot of
talk about<BR>>> the<BR>>> > compromises we have all made when
buying a vehicle.<BR>>> > I am there with you. (stow 'n go Grand
caravan ... love it)<BR>>> > But the choir is already saved, and you
all already fly Pattern.<BR>>> > Please go pester the newbies and the
folks that you think are<BR>>> potential<BR>>> > Pattern
newbies.<BR>>> > Will this make a difference as to whether they take
the plunge?<BR>>> > Maybe the answer is that future participation
won't be improved.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > After we figure out
whether future participation will or will not<BR>>> be<BR>>> >
helped,<BR>>> > then we can figure out what those of us already in
the event would<BR>>> like.<BR>>> > That is an entirely
separate question.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > thanks for the
help,<BR>>> > Dean<BR>>> ><BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>>> > Dean Pappas<BR>>> > Sr. Design
Engineer<BR>>> > Kodeos Communications<BR>>> > 111 Corporate
Blvd.<BR>>> > South Plainfield, N.J. 07080<BR>>> > (908)
222-7817 phone<BR>>> > (908) 222-2392 fax<BR>>> > <A
title=mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A><BR>>>
><BR>>> ><BR>>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>>>
> From: <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of<BR>>>
Anthony<BR>>> > Romano<BR>>> > Sent: Thursday, January 04,
2007 11:31 AM<BR>>> > To: <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models bonus!?<BR>>>
><BR>>> ><BR>>> > Ok I will try it again. What about a 10
% score bonus for a 1.7m<BR>>> model?<BR>>> > 1.5m<BR>>>
><BR>>> > 20%? Encourage the newbie or the guy on a budget and
take away the<BR>>><BR>>> > perceived<BR>>>
><BR>>> > advantage without causing obsolescence on current
equipment.<BR>>> > Remember the biplane bonus at the TOC? Wasn't
there a size bonus<BR>>> as well<BR>>> > waaayyy
back?<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Maybe it needs to be limited to
sportsman or intermediate maybe<BR>>> not.<BR>>> ><BR>>>
> Anthony<BR>>> ><BR>>> ><BR>>> >>From: "Ed
Miller" <<A title=mailto:edbon85@charter.net
href="mailto:edbon85@charter.net">edbon85@charter.net</A>><BR>>>
>>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>>
>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>>
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models<BR>>>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:12:11 -0500<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>>Yes, that is known as the BPA, Ballistic Pattern Association.
So<BR>>> soon<BR>>> >>there<BR>>> >>will be 3
pattern venues to split the already dwindling pattern<BR>>> base
:).<BR>>> >>Ed M.<BR>>> >>----- Original Message
-----<BR>>> >>From: "Earl Haury" <<A
title=mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com
href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">ehaury@houston.rr.com</A>><BR>>>
>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>>
>>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:40 AM<BR>>> >>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>Interesting indeed - a local club is considering
holding a "ole<BR>>> fashion"<BR>>> >>pattern contest this
fall. The plan is to fly pre-turnaround<BR>>> pattern. Not<BR>>>
>>sure exactly what the rules will be - but not SPA, as the
intent<BR>>> is to<BR>>> >>allow<BR>>> >>'70's -
'80's airplanes with piped engines & retracts (one
member<BR>>><BR>>> >>mentioned<BR>>> >>a
Brushfire with piped Jett 90).<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>I'm
very comfortable with pattern as it is - however, there is a<BR>>>
gap<BR>>> >>between<BR>>> >>current pattern and SPA
that many seem interested in.<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>>Earl<BR>>> >> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>> >> From: Koenig, Tom<BR>>>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>>> >>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:16 PM<BR>>> >>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >> Guys-there are
many of us that reminisce about the 'simpler'<BR>>> days of<BR>>>
>> the<BR>>> >>60 size models, even down here!<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> I mentioned recently to some locals
that I may hold a comp<BR>>> similar to<BR>>>
>>your<BR>>> >>SPA stuff. I considered just allowing 60 size
models as a max,<BR>>> never mind<BR>>> >>all the vintage
rules etc.....I was SWAMPED with interest. There<BR>>> were
all<BR>>> >>sorts of ex pattern pilots ready to show up. I think
I'd have had<BR>>> 40 -50<BR>>> sible entries!!!<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> Not trying to stir things up-but it
is interesting<BR>>> nonetheless.<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> Tom<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>>>
>> From: <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>>
>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
Ron<BR>>> Lockhart<BR>>> >> Sent:
Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:31 AM<BR>>> >>
To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>>> >> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> Yea, smaller has a
number of advantages.<BR>>> >> A
reduction in money, time, hassle factor, etc., of models<BR>>> is
a<BR>>> >>thought<BR>>> >>toward increased
participation.<BR>>> >> (Yea, I know the
established pilots, and new pilots, are<BR>>> allowed to<BR>>>
>>fly<BR>>> >>smaller models right now. But we have
a<BR>>> >> lot of history that shows
Dean's comment "Given that<BR>>> everyone will<BR>>> >>build
or buy up to the maximum size limit" is true.<BR>>>
>> How does that Dixie thing
go?....<G><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> Ron Lockhart<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>> >> From: Dean
Pappas<BR>>> >> To: NSRCA
Mailing List<BR>>> >> Sent:
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:51 PM<BR>>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Header Brace<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> Hi John,<BR>>>
>> A year or so ago, I puit together
an Excelleron 90 for a<BR>>> review and<BR>>> >>eventual
sale to a newbie.<BR>>> >>
Boy! Was it nice to drop a plane into the minivan in one<BR>>>
piece!<BR>>> >> It was almost
as good as when a Phoenix 8 would fit into<BR>>> the back<BR>>>
>> of<BR>>> ><BR>>> >>a<BR>>>
>>hatchback Camaro in one piece.<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> Given that everyone will build or
buy up to the maximum<BR>>> size limit,<BR>>>
>> is there a good enough reason to
push on the rules bodies<BR>>> to<BR>>>
>>legislate<BR>>> >>Pattern plane sizes back
down?<BR>>> >> How about 1.6
or 1.7 meters square?<BR>>> >>
Will this affect cost and complexity enough to have a<BR>>>
beneficial<BR>>> >>effect on participation?<BR>>>
>> Or am I just whistling
Dixie?<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> later,<BR>>>
>> Dean<BR>>>
>> Dean Pappas<BR>>>
>> Sr. Design Engineer<BR>>>
>> Kodeos Communications<BR>>>
>> 111 Corporate Blvd.<BR>>>
>> South Plainfield, N.J.
07080<BR>>> >> (908) 222-7817
phone<BR>>> >> (908) 222-2392
fax<BR>>> >> <A
title=mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>>
>> From: <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>>
>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
John<BR>>> Ferrell<BR>>>
>> Sent: Wednesday,
January 03, 2007 3:07 PM<BR>>>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing
List<BR>>> >>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>
There seems to be a growing trend toward smaller<BR>>> airplanes
among<BR>>> >> a<BR>>> >>lot of folks. I sure am
enjoying the 90 size Boxer I bought from<BR>>> Ed Miller<BR>>>
>>last summer. Less hassle to transport, assemble and fly.
That<BR>>> means I can<BR>>> >>fly more!<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>
John Ferrell W8CCW<BR>>>
>> "My Competition is
not my enemy"<BR>>>
>> <A
title=http://dixienc.us/
href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>><BR>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
---<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>
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