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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'd support your option 2, but it would be a total
redefinition and planes would be going up on center instead of
down.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net
href="mailto:JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net">Jerry Stebbins</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion -NSRCA</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:56
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Square
Eight</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mr. Ivey, sir, maybe this will help.(and others
also) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all know there are eight (8) lines and (8)
corners to the maneuver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all know it is centered- so one half is on
each side of center.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all know one half of the maneuver is an
outside square, and the other is an inside square.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One would assume that if you have to enter it
inverted the first half would be the "outside half"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also since you enter inverted and "low"
-then one would assume that the maneuver is above that entry
line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I assume there are really entry and exit lines
before and after the maneuver, so where the maneuver "starts" is what we are
striving for.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Most of us (writer not included) can tell where
center is--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>soooo---there are two versions on how to do this
flying around so lets sort that out also--One version performs the first
"outside corner" (push) after center as the first maneuver, the other
starts the maneuver on center with the first "outside corner" (push).
Maybe there is a clue there since this is a "centered" maneuver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>First Version</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you enter the maneuver with a straight line
-low - then the first line past center is either the beginning of the
maneuver, or not a part of the maneuver, since you have gone past the last
corner (on center), and did not do it. Some have said you will never be
back to the center in the exactly same attitude again (not totally true since
you do enter and exit inverted) during the maneuver so maybe that helps us
narrow it down.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also if the first three corners are "pushes" and
the next four are "pulls" that leaves one "push" left to do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK everyone following so far--we have a "push"
corner left to go, for sure,and a horizontal inverted line to define as either
the "beginning" or the "end" of the maneuver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You could say that you started the maneuver when
you went past center, but that would not be "technically correct" since you
have to couple the last corner to the line, and it would be a right angle-no
length radius to be correct, plus that would force you into an automatic
downgrade since it would not be like the other seven--never could do a perfect
10.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So now do we split the first line into a "start
point" that is "some" distance</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>after
center so the "end point" of the "corner" has a defineable location, OR
find an answer that allows a "10" and is "judgeable"</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So I would suggest the following would clarify
this one. 1) the first part of the maneuver that is judged is the start
of the first radius (lets not argue the entrance and exit line existence), and
the last part that is judged is the straight line after the eight (8) radius
"push" that is of proper length for the "square" geometry, at the same
altitude and same track to intersect the "start" point of the first
"push" .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is doable but does not seem like a
reasonable way to end up a "centered" maneuver</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Version Two</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Again lets not flog the (entrance and exit
lines-they exist)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The maneuver starts inverted and low with
the first part that is judged is the first corner "push" to vertical "on
center" to start the "inside" square, followed by four equal lines
and "pulls" (last one on center to vertical), followed by three (3)
more lines and "pushes" and then the eight (8) and last
line judged is the straight line of proper length for the "square"
geometry, at the same altitude and same track as the entrance line at the
start of the first corner (push), that started the maneuver on
"center".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This makes more sense as it actually "does
something" on center to start a "centered" maneuver. Also this matches the
Aresti diagram--for what that is worth in the AMA world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think what is confusing some is the fact that
not all "pushes" and "pulls' follow each other.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I vote for this one! --And no need for a flame
suit since all I will have to do is Judge it, not Fly it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
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