<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>hey, I tried to give a fast clean answer, but
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>=)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jivey61@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:jivey61@bellsouth.net">jivey61@bellsouth.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Square
Eight</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>.....and it's all Jason's fault</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim I</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jivey61@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:jivey61@bellsouth.net">jivey61@bellsouth.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:39
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Square
Eight</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So now there is 2 ways to do the
8?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>......and you want the 1st vertical segment to
be on center.That will work too.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Look people I have flown this Horizontal 8
every way it can be flown in controlline stunt many years ago......Just tell
me which way to fly this one,now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Ivey</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net
href="mailto:JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net">Jerry Stebbins</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion -NSRCA</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 14, 2006
11:56 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Square
Eight</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mr. Ivey, sir, maybe this will help.(and
others also) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all know there are eight (8) lines and (8)
corners to the maneuver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all know it is centered- so one half is on
each side of center.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all know one half of the maneuver is an
outside square, and the other is an inside square.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One would assume that if you have to enter it
inverted the first half would be the "outside half"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also since you enter inverted and "low"
-then one would assume that the maneuver is above that entry
line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I assume there are really entry and exit
lines before and after the maneuver, so where the maneuver "starts" is
what we are striving for.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Most of us (writer not included) can tell
where center is--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>soooo---there are two versions on how to do
this flying around so lets sort that out also--One version performs
the first "outside corner" (push) after center as the first
maneuver, the other starts the maneuver on center with the first
"outside corner" (push). Maybe there is a clue there since this is a
"centered" maneuver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>First Version</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you enter the maneuver with a straight
line -low - then the first line past center is either the beginning
of the maneuver, or not a part of the maneuver, since you have gone past
the last corner (on center), and did not do it. Some have said you
will never be back to the center in the exactly same attitude again (not
totally true since you do enter and exit inverted) during the maneuver so
maybe that helps us narrow it down.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also if the first three corners are "pushes"
and the next four are "pulls" that leaves one "push" left to
do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK everyone following so far--we have a
"push" corner left to go, for sure,and a horizontal inverted line to
define as either the "beginning" or the "end" of the
maneuver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You could say that you started the maneuver
when you went past center, but that would not be "technically correct"
since you have to couple the last corner to the line, and it would be a
right angle-no length radius to be correct, plus that would force you into
an automatic downgrade since it would not be like the other seven--never
could do a perfect 10.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So now do we split the first line into a
"start point" that is "some" distance</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
size=2>after center so the "end point" of the "corner" has a defineable
location, OR find an answer that allows a "10" and is
"judgeable"</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So I would suggest the following would
clarify this one. 1) the first part of the maneuver that is judged is
the start of the first radius (lets not argue the entrance and exit line
existence), and the last part that is judged is the straight line after
the eight (8) radius "push" that is of proper length for the "square"
geometry, at the same altitude and same track to intersect the "start"
point of the first "push" .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is doable but does not seem like a
reasonable way to end up a "centered" maneuver</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Version Two</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Again lets not flog the (entrance and exit
lines-they exist)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The maneuver starts inverted and low
with the first part that is judged is the first corner "push" to vertical
"on center" to start the "inside" square, followed by four equal lines
and "pulls" (last one on center to vertical), followed by three
(3) more lines and "pushes" and then the eight (8) and last
line judged is the straight line of proper length for the "square"
geometry, at the same altitude and same track as the entrance line at
the start of the first corner (push), that started the maneuver on
"center".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This makes more sense as it actually "does
something" on center to start a "centered" maneuver. Also this matches the
Aresti diagram--for what that is worth in the AMA world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think what is confusing some is the fact
that not all "pushes" and "pulls' follow each other.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I vote for this one! --And no need for a
flame suit since all I will have to do is Judge it, not Fly
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>