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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am pretty sure the maneuver is described
as the first vertical being at the end of the maneuver not at the center.
A push to an outside loop followed by an inside loop with the last downward
vertical at center with a push to inverted straight and level flight.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, November 12, 2006
12:53 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Masters Square 8</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Vicente is right on the mark guys. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The first up-line is on the center line so the radius has to
start before center and it should follow that the first loop should be the
inside, otherwise the maneuver will cause a reverse in the sequence
direction and that shouldn't take place 'til after the 1/2 square with 2 of 2
up. To me, seems pretty straight forward. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net" title="vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Sunday, November
12, 2006 9:43 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I agree with Don. The square 8 is a center maneuver, therefore
the center, entry and exit of the maneuver, must be in front of the judges
so the maneuver is balanced around the center. This means that the entry
point of the straight line is 15 m before the center. Likewise the exit
point is 15 meters in the other side of the entry point after the center in
order to keep the figure balanced around the center. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am sure that we are going to have concern in other manuevers.
However, center manuevers are balanced around the center of the box so it is easy
applying this rule to come to the right conclusion in regard the entry and exit
points.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: <jivey61@bellsouth.net> <br>
<br>
> All <br>
> If the maneuver starts at center,then we fly 2 of the same segments of the
<br>
> outside portion of the "8". The inverted horizontal portion just
before the <br>
> first vertical and the last inverted horizontal portion just before the <br>
> first vertical. Note below taken from NSRCA judging page....maneuver <br>
> properties:..begin and end with a straight line....... To me this says the
<br>
> maneuver starts at the entry line which is before the first vertical and <br>
> ends after the exit line just after the first vertical point. The maneuver
<br>
> is still centered equally on either side of center. <br>
> <br>
> Jim Ivey <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> General Judging Guidelines <br>
> <br>
> Page maintained by Don Ramsey. Please email me wit! h any p roblems,
comments <br>
> or suggestions. <br>
> <br>
> "All centered maneuvers should have these properties unless otherwise
<br>
> defined in the maneuver description or in that maneuver's downgrades.
Learn <br>
> these and you have an excellent start toward becoming a better judge. <br>
> Maneuver properties:" <br>
> <br>
> - Begin and end with a straight line - Rolls centered on lines <br>
> - Middle of the maneuver centered <br>
> on the judges - Roll rates the same <br>
> - Lines of equal length - Loops round <br>
> - Radiuses equal - Done within 175 meters <br>
> - Begin and end at the same altitude <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> From: "Stuart Chale" <br>
<SCHALE@OPTONLINE.NET>> To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName>'" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:21 AM <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <br>
> <br>
> <B! R>> > " As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. <br>
> > Don" <br>
> > <br>
> > What Don said is probably true. Agreed there is a long inverted
flight <br>
> > before the first push to vertical in the horizontal eight and after
the <br>
> > humpty bump. If someone is weaving, or changing altitude during this <br>
> > portion, the judge is going to downgrade one of the two maneuvers. I <br>
> would <br>
> > think if there was a reasonable straight and level after the humpty
then <br>
> the <br>
> > rest is judged on the horizontal eight. Do we really have segments of
<br>
> > flight that should not be judged or added to a downgrade for anything
but <br>
> > straight and level? <br>
> > <br>
> > Stuart Chale <br>
> > <br>
> > -----Original Message----- <br>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don
Ram! sey <br>
> > (CoxNet) <br>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:40 PM <br>
> > To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <br>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <br>
> > <br>
> > Lance, <br>
> > <br>
> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line before center and start
at <br>
> > center. The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time
the <br>
> model <br>
> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after
takeoff and <br>
> > landing." Of course, some maneuvers start before center as the
slow roll, <br>
> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. <br>
> > <br>
> > Don <br>
> > <br>
> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> > From: <br>
<JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET>> > To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006
7:16 PM <br>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <br>
> &! gt; <br>
> > <br>
> > > Lance <br>
> > > You will have to have a entry line before the push to vertical
past <br>
> > > center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the
entry <br>
> line. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Jim Ivey <br>
> > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> > > From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <br>
<PATTERNDUDE@COMCAST.NET>> > > To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> > > Sent: Saturday, November 11,
2006 7:51 PM <br>
> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > >> OK,so where does the maneuver begin and end? At center, the
radius <br>
> after <br>
> > >> center, at the first corner initiation? <br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> --Lance <br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> > >> From: <br>
<JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET>! > &g t; >> To: "<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> > >> Sent: Saturday, November
11, 2006 4:06 PM <br>
> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> > Jason <br>
> > >> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st
loop (outside) <br>
> to <br>
> > >> > the <br>
> > >> > right of center and next (inside) loop to the left of
center.The <br>
> first <br>
> > >> > loop <br>
> > >> > is outside loop and 1st vertical segment starts past
center.Of course <br>
> > > swap <br>
> > >> > left and right for opposite flying direction. <br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > Jim Ivey <br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> > >> > From: "JShulman" ! <br>
<JSHULM AN@CFL.RR.COM>> > >> > To: "NSRCA" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> > >> > Sent: Saturday,
November 11, 2006 4:08 PM <br>
> > >> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> >> Hi All, <br>
> > >> >> <br>
> > >> >> Does the Square horizontal 8 start at center or
just past center? <br>
> > >> >> <br>
> > >> >> Regards, <br>
> > >> >> Jason <br>
> > >> >> www.jasonshulman.com <br>
> > >> >> www.shulmanaviation.com <br>
> > >> >> www.composite-arf.com <br>
> > >> >> -- <br>
> > >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. <br>
> > >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. <br>
> > >> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 -
Release! Date: <br>
> > >> >> 11/10/2006 <br>
> > >> >> <br>
> > >> >> <br>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> > >> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > >> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
<br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > >> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > >> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > >> >
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> _______________________________________________ <br>
> > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discus! sion <b
R><span style='font-weight:bold'>> > > <br>
> > > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> > <br>
> > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></b></span></font></p>
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