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<DIV><FONT size=2>Ed,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>That's the way I judged the pyramid. Started at
center. Judged straight line before center and the straight line after
center for the exit. Otherwise did it start somewhere well before
center or at the first radius? On the horizontal eight, I think the first square
is a complete square not just 3 sides with the last leg being done after the
other square.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Don</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=divesplat@yahoo.com href="mailto:divesplat@yahoo.com">Ed Deaver</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:13
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters
Square 8</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Interesting thoughts. I'm confused by some though.</DIV>
<DIV>Don't we fly past center to perform one outside square, with the downline
directly on the center pole, pulling to complete a symetrical inside square on
the other side of the center pole, and again pulling down vertical on the
center pole, to push to inverted straight and level. Of course all radii
should be the same, heading and track the same, lines straight. Both
squares symetrical.</DIV>
<DIV>Where to start. If we consider the Pyramid of this year, are
yousaying the maneuver started 15M before center even though we flew another
30-50 M or did the Pyramid start 15M before the first vertical elevent (the
135degree pull) It seems to me the same criteria would apply. The
same goes for any square element that flies past center.</DIV>
<DIV>Ed<BR><BR><B><I>Ken Velez <kvelez@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wouldn't starting at the center will make this
maneuver a reverse horizontal square 8, and George regardless of which one
you do the up wind square should be done first. This way you will not
change flight direction.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Masters Square 8</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vicente is right on the mark guys.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The first up-line is on the center line so
the radius has to start before center and it should follow that the
first loop should be the inside, otherwise the maneuver will cause a
reverse in the sequence direction and that shouldn't take place 'til after
the 1/2 square with 2 of 2 up. To me, seems pretty straight
forward. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006
9:43 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Masters Square 8</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I agree with Don. The square 8 is a center maneuver,
therefore the center, entry and exit of the maneuver, must be in
front of the judges so the maneuver is balanced around the center.
This means that the entry point of the straight line is 15 m before the
center. Likewise the exit point is 15 meters in the other side of
the entry point after the center in order to keep the figure balanced
around the center. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am sure that we are going to have concern in other
manuevers. However, center manuevers are balanced around the
center of the box so it is easy applying this rule to come to the right
conclusion in regard the entry and exit points.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From:
<jivey61@bellsouth.net> <BR><BR>> All <BR>> If the
maneuver starts at center,then we fly 2 of the same segments of the
<BR>> outside portion of the "8". The inverted horizontal portion
just before the <BR>> first vertical and the last inverted
horizontal portion just before the <BR>> first vertical. Note below
taken from NSRCA judging page....maneuver <BR>> properties:..begin
and end with a straight line....... To me this says the <BR>>
maneuver starts at the entry line which is before the first vertical
and <BR>> ends after the exit line just after the first vertical
point. The maneuver <BR>> is still centered equally on either side
of center. <BR>> <BR>> Jim Ivey <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> General Judging Guidelines <BR>> <BR>> Page maintained
by Don Ramsey. Please email me wit! h any p roblems, comments <BR>>
or suggestions. <BR>> <BR>> "All centered maneuvers should have
these properties unless otherwise <BR>> defined in the maneuver
description or in that maneuver's downgrades. Learn <BR>> these and
you have an excellent start toward becoming a better judge. <BR>>
Maneuver properties:" <BR>> <BR>> - Begin and end with a
straight line - Rolls centered on lines <BR>> - Middle of the
maneuver centered <BR>> on the judges - Roll rates the same
<BR>> - Lines of equal length - Loops round <BR>> - Radiuses
equal - Done within 175 meters <BR>> - Begin and end at the same
altitude <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Stuart
Chale" <SCHALE@OPTONLINE.NET><BR>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Sunday, November 12,
2006 8:21 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
<BR>> <BR>> <B! R>> > " As for scoring, I'm not entirely
sure it matters. <BR>> > Don" <BR>> > <BR>> > What
Don said is probably true. Agreed there is a long inverted flight
<BR>> > before the first push to vertical in the horizontal
eight and after the <BR>> > humpty bump. If someone is weaving,
or changing altitude during this <BR>> > portion, the judge is
going to downgrade one of the two maneuvers. I <BR>> would <BR>>
> think if there was a reasonable straight and level after the
humpty then <BR>> the <BR>> > rest is judged on the
horizontal eight. Do we really have segments of <BR>> > flight
that should not be judged or added to a downgrade for anything but
<BR>> > straight and level? <BR>> > <BR>> > Stuart
Chale <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don
Ram! sey <BR>> > (CoxNet) <BR>> > Sent: Saturday, November
11, 2006 8:40 PM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> >
<BR>> > Lance, <BR>> > <BR>> > I believe it starts
at center. Straight line before center and start at <BR>> >
center. The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time the
<BR>> model <BR>> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is
executed, except after takeoff and <BR>> > landing." Of course,
some maneuvers start before center as the slow roll, <BR>> >
etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. <BR>> >
<BR>> > Don <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message
----- <BR>> > From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>> > To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM <BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> &! gt; <BR>> >
<BR>> > > Lance <BR>> > > You will have to have a
entry line before the push to vertical past <BR>> > >
center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the entry
<BR>> line. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Jim Ivey <BR>>
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > > From: "Lance
Van Nostrand" <PATTERNDUDE@COMCAST.NET><BR>> > > To: "NSRCA
Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:51 PM <BR>> > > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > > <BR>>
> > <BR>> > >> OK,so where does the maneuver begin
and end? At center, the radius <BR>> after <BR>> > >>
center, at the first corner initiation? <BR>> > >>
<BR>> > >> --Lance <BR>> > >> <BR>> >
>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >> From:
<JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>! > &g t; >> To: "NSRCA
Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 PM <BR>> > >>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> >
>> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> > Jason
<BR>> > >> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter
inverted and 1st loop (outside) <BR>> to <BR>> > >>
> the <BR>> > >> > right of center and next (inside)
loop to the left of center.The <BR>> first <BR>> > >>
> loop <BR>> > >> > is outside loop and 1st vertical
segment starts past center.Of course <BR>> > > swap <BR>>
> >> > left and right for opposite flying direction.
<BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> > <BR>> >
>> > Jim Ivey <BR>> > >> > <BR>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >> >
From: "JShulman" ! <JSHULM AN@CFL.RR.COM><BR>> > >> >
To: "NSRCA" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >>
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM <BR>> > >>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> >
>> > <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >>
>> Hi All, <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> >
>> >> Does the Square horizontal 8 start at center or just
past center? <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >>
>> Regards, <BR>> > >> >> Jason <BR>> >
>> >> www.jasonshulman.com <BR>> > >> >>
www.shulmanaviation.com <BR>> > >> >>
www.composite-arf.com <BR>> > >> >> -- <BR>> >
>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. <BR>>
> >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>> >
>> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 -
Release! Date: <BR>> > >> >> 11/10/2006 <BR>>
> >> >> <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
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