<div>Interesting thoughts. I'm confused by some though.</div> <div>Don't we fly past center to perform one outside square, with the downline directly on the center pole, pulling to complete a symetrical inside square on the other side of the center pole, and again pulling down vertical on the center pole, to push to inverted straight and level. Of course all radii should be the same, heading and track the same, lines straight. Both squares symetrical.</div> <div>Where to start. If we consider the Pyramid of this year, are yousaying the maneuver started 15M before center even though we flew another 30-50 M or did the Pyramid start 15M before the first vertical elevent (the 135degree pull) It seems to me the same criteria would apply. The same goes for any square element that flies past center.</div> <div>Ed<BR><BR><B><I>Ken Velez <kvelez@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wouldn't starting at the center will make this maneuver a reverse horizontal square 8, and George regardless of which one you do the up wind square should be done first. This way you will not change flight direction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:53 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vicente is right on the mark guys. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The first up-line is on the center line so the radius has to start before center and it should follow that the first loop should be the inside, otherwise the maneuver will cause a reverse in the sequence direction and that shouldn't take place 'til after the 1/2 square with 2 of 2 up. To me, seems pretty straight forward. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=vicenterc@comcast.net href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:43 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>I agree with Don. The square 8 is a center maneuver, therefore the center, entry and exit of the maneuver, must be in front of the judges so the maneuver is balanced around the center. This means that the entry point of the straight line is 15 m before the center. Likewise the exit point is 15 meters in the other side
of the entry point after the center in order to keep the figure balanced around the center. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure that we are going to have concern in other manuevers. However, center manuevers are balanced around the center of the box so it is easy applying this rule to come to the right conclusion in regard the entry and exit points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <jivey61@bellsouth.net> <BR><BR>> All <BR>> If the maneuver starts at center,then we fly 2 of the same segments of the <BR>> outside portion of the "8". The inverted horizontal portion just before the <BR>> first vertical and the last inverted horizontal portion just before the <BR>> first vertical. Note below taken from NSRCA judging page....maneuver <BR>>
properties:..begin and end with a straight line....... To me this says the <BR>> maneuver starts at the entry line which is before the first vertical and <BR>> ends after the exit line just after the first vertical point. The maneuver <BR>> is still centered equally on either side of center. <BR>> <BR>> Jim Ivey <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> General Judging Guidelines <BR>> <BR>> Page maintained by Don Ramsey. Please email me wit! h any p roblems, comments <BR>> or suggestions. <BR>> <BR>> "All centered maneuvers should have these properties unless otherwise <BR>> defined in the maneuver description or in that maneuver's downgrades. Learn <BR>> these and you have an excellent start toward becoming a better judge. <BR>> Maneuver properties:" <BR>> <BR>> - Begin and end with a straight line - Rolls centered on lines <BR>> - Middle of the maneuver centered <BR>> on the judges - Roll rates the same <BR>> - Lines of
equal length - Loops round <BR>> - Radiuses equal - Done within 175 meters <BR>> - Begin and end at the same altitude <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Stuart Chale" <SCHALE@OPTONLINE.NET><BR>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:21 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> <BR>> <B! R>> > " As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. <BR>> > Don" <BR>> > <BR>> > What Don said is probably true. Agreed there is a long inverted flight <BR>> > before the first push to vertical in the horizontal eight and after the <BR>> > humpty bump. If someone is weaving, or changing altitude during this <BR>> > portion, the judge is going to downgrade one of the two maneuvers. I <BR>> would <BR>> > think if there was a reasonable straight and
level after the humpty then <BR>> the <BR>> > rest is judged on the horizontal eight. Do we really have segments of <BR>> > flight that should not be judged or added to a downgrade for anything but <BR>> > straight and level? <BR>> > <BR>> > Stuart Chale <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don Ram! sey <BR>> > (CoxNet) <BR>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:40 PM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > <BR>> > Lance, <BR>> > <BR>> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line before center and start at <BR>> > center. The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time the <BR>> model <BR>> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after
takeoff and <BR>> > landing." Of course, some maneuvers start before center as the slow roll, <BR>> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. <BR>> > <BR>> > Don <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> &! gt; <BR>> > <BR>> > > Lance <BR>> > > You will have to have a entry line before the push to vertical past <BR>> > > center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the entry <BR>> line. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Jim Ivey <BR>> > > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > > From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <PATTERNDUDE@COMCAST.NET><BR>> > > To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:51 PM <BR>> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > >> OK,so where does the maneuver begin and end? At center, the radius <BR>> after <BR>> > >> center, at the first corner initiation? <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> --Lance <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >> From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>! > &g t; >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 PM <BR>> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> > Jason <BR>> > >> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st loop (outside) <BR>> to <BR>> > >>
> the <BR>> > >> > right of center and next (inside) loop to the left of center.The <BR>> first <BR>> > >> > loop <BR>> > >> > is outside loop and 1st vertical segment starts past center.Of course <BR>> > > swap <BR>> > >> > left and right for opposite flying direction. <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> > Jim Ivey <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >> > From: "JShulman" ! <JSHULM AN@CFL.RR.COM><BR>> > >> > To: "NSRCA" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM <BR>> > >> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> >> Hi All, <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >> >> Does the Square
horizontal 8 start at center or just past center? <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >> >> Regards, <BR>> > >> >> Jason <BR>> > >> >> www.jasonshulman.com <BR>> > >> >> www.shulmanaviation.com <BR>> > >> >> www.composite-arf.com <BR>> > >> >> -- <BR>> > >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. <BR>> > >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>> > >> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release! Date: <BR>> > >> >> 11/10/2006 <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >> >>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discus! sion <B R>> > > <BR>> > > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> >
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