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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wouldn't starting at the center will make this
maneuver a reverse horizontal square 8, and George regardless of which one you
do the up wind square should be done first. This way you will not change
flight direction.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters
Square 8</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vicente is right on the mark guys. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The first up-line is on the center line so the
radius has to start before center and it should follow that the first
loop should be the inside, otherwise the maneuver will cause a reverse in
the sequence direction and that shouldn't take place 'til after the 1/2 square
with 2 of 2 up. To me, seems pretty straight forward. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:43
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters
Square 8</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I agree with Don. The square 8 is a center maneuver, therefore
the center, entry and exit of the maneuver, must be in front of the
judges so the maneuver is balanced around the center. This means that
the entry point of the straight line is 15 m before the center.
Likewise the exit point is 15 meters in the other side of the entry point
after the center in order to keep the figure balanced around the
center. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am sure that we are going to have concern in other manuevers.
However, center manuevers are balanced around the center of the box so it is
easy applying this rule to come to the right conclusion in regard the entry
and exit points.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: <jivey61@bellsouth.net>
<BR><BR>> All <BR>> If the maneuver starts at center,then we fly 2
of the same segments of the <BR>> outside portion of the "8". The
inverted horizontal portion just before the <BR>> first vertical and
the last inverted horizontal portion just before the <BR>> first
vertical. Note below taken from NSRCA judging page....maneuver <BR>>
properties:..begin and end with a straight line....... To me this says the
<BR>> maneuver starts at the entry line which is before the first
vertical and <BR>> ends after the exit line just after the first
vertical point. The maneuver <BR>> is still centered equally on either
side of center. <BR>> <BR>> Jim Ivey <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> General Judging Guidelines <BR>> <BR>> Page maintained by
Don Ramsey. Please email me wit! h any p roblems, comments <BR>> or
suggestions. <BR>> <BR>> "All centered maneuvers should have these
properties unless otherwise <BR>> defined in the maneuver description
or in that maneuver's downgrades. Learn <BR>> these and you have an
excellent start toward becoming a better judge. <BR>> Maneuver
properties:" <BR>> <BR>> - Begin and end with a straight line -
Rolls centered on lines <BR>> - Middle of the maneuver centered
<BR>> on the judges - Roll rates the same <BR>> - Lines of equal
length - Loops round <BR>> - Radiuses equal - Done within 175 meters
<BR>> - Begin and end at the same altitude <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: "Stuart Chale" <SCHALE@OPTONLINE.NET><BR>> To: "'NSRCA
Mailing List'" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Sunday,
November 12, 2006 8:21 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters
Square 8 <BR>> <BR>> <B! R>> > " As for scoring, I'm not
entirely sure it matters. <BR>> > Don" <BR>> > <BR>> >
What Don said is probably true. Agreed there is a long inverted flight
<BR>> > before the first push to vertical in the horizontal eight
and after the <BR>> > humpty bump. If someone is weaving, or
changing altitude during this <BR>> > portion, the judge is going to
downgrade one of the two maneuvers. I <BR>> would <BR>> > think
if there was a reasonable straight and level after the humpty then
<BR>> the <BR>> > rest is judged on the horizontal eight. Do we
really have segments of <BR>> > flight that should not be judged or
added to a downgrade for anything but <BR>> > straight and level?
<BR>> > <BR>> > Stuart Chale <BR>> > <BR>> >
-----Original Message----- <BR>> > From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don Ram!
sey <BR>> > (CoxNet) <BR>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006
8:40 PM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > <BR>> > Lance,
<BR>> > <BR>> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line
before center and start at <BR>> > center. The reason I say that is
rule 14.1 which says "Each time the <BR>> model <BR>> > passes
before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after takeoff and
<BR>> > landing." Of course, some maneuvers start before center as
the slow roll, <BR>> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it
matters. <BR>> > <BR>> > Don <BR>> > <BR>> > -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>>
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM <BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> &! gt; <BR>> >
<BR>> > > Lance <BR>> > > You will have to have a entry
line before the push to vertical past <BR>> > > center.This is
where I think it starts... at the start of the entry <BR>> line.
<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Jim Ivey <BR>> > > -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> > > From: "Lance Van Nostrand"
<PATTERNDUDE@COMCAST.NET><BR>> > > To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > > Sent: Saturday,
November 11, 2006 7:51 PM <BR>> > > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > > <BR>> > >
<BR>> > >> OK,so where does the maneuver begin and end? At
center, the radius <BR>> after <BR>> > >> center, at the
first corner initiation? <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >>
--Lance <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> > >> From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>!
> &g t; >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >> Sent: Saturday,
November 11, 2006 4:06 PM <BR>> > >> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > >> <BR>> >
>> <BR>> > >> > Jason <BR>> > >> > The
way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st loop (outside) <BR>>
to <BR>> > >> > the <BR>> > >> > right of
center and next (inside) loop to the left of center.The <BR>> first
<BR>> > >> > loop <BR>> > >> > is outside
loop and 1st vertical segment starts past center.Of course <BR>> >
> swap <BR>> > >> > left and right for opposite flying
direction. <BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> >
<BR>> > >> > Jim Ivey <BR>> > >> > <BR>>
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >>
> From: "JShulman" ! <JSHULM AN@CFL.RR.COM><BR>> > >> >
To: "NSRCA" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > >> >
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM <BR>> > >> >
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8 <BR>> > >> >
<BR>> > >> > <BR>> > >> >> Hi All,
<BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >> >> Does the
Square horizontal 8 start at center or just past center? <BR>> >
>> >> <BR>> > >> >> Regards, <BR>> >
>> >> Jason <BR>> > >> >>
www.jasonshulman.com <BR>> > >> >>
www.shulmanaviation.com <BR>> > >> >>
www.composite-arf.com <BR>> > >> >> -- <BR>> >
>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. <BR>> >
>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>> > >>
>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release! Date:
<BR>> > >> >> 11/10/2006 <BR>> > >> >>
<BR>> > >> >> <BR>> > >> >>
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