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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The newer batteries are not needed, agreed.
Everyone has been doing fine with the older TP 5300 packs. The only real
reason to me to go with the heavier packs and I went with Falcon is to possibly
increase longevity. If the cells are driven less near their breaking
points they should last longer. Who knows? In a year or so maybe we
will have some numbers from those that fly several times a week on the same
batteries. If you have 2 or 3 sets of batteries it is hard to put over
100 flights on each pack in a season, so only time will tell if there is any reason
to go for the weight penalty.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stuart Chale<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>DaveL322@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 06, 2006
2:05 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
'08 F3A Rule Proposals</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Agree.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Increasing the weight rule for IC or electric will usher in the next
generation of more expensive planes. Looking at the current state of the
art, and where things are heading, allowing the electrics to weigh more would
accelerate the death of IC.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>My Vivats are 9 lbs 14 oz + fuel (12 oz of 15% is plenty for 12+ minute
flights).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>My Prestiges are 10 lbs even w/ 5300s (solid power for 10 minutes of
flying).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Both the Vivats and Prestiges could be lighter with some simple changes
(namely eliminating the redundant batteries/switches/regulators).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The older Vivat has about 1,000 flights and the airframe is still very
solid and has needed misc maintenance and preventive care on "vibration
items" - ie, canopy and BP attachments, servo gears.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The older Prestige has about 225 flights and is on pace for
substantially less maintenance.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The newer ~5000 mah ~20C lipos do add a couple oz (4 - 8 oz pretty much
covers the range), but, they certainly aren't needed for AMA classes - the 4300
- 4600 range stuff is the same weight as the 5300s and still has plenty of
reserve capacity. I've been flying the PO7 in pretty heavy wind with the
TP 4600s Extremes without running out of capacity. If the F3A schedules
are indeed shorter in 2008, capacity will cease to be an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: Stuart Chale <schale@optonline.net> <br>
<br>
> Weights are being made with electric. The airframes although made lighter <br>
> than their IC counterparts appear to be holding up although I doubt many <br>
> 500+ flight airframes are out there. Time will tell. Whenever there is <br>
> something new, be it 120 4 cycle, unlimited engine/motor size there have <br>
> been growing pains and people have adapted to make it work. With the 5300 <br>
> TP packs weights are pretty easy to make these days unless you are trying
to <br>
> convert a heavy 2M IC plane to electric. With the new TP packs or other <br>
> packs made with Enerland cells there is an additional 4 oz weight penalty <br>
> that may need to be overcome. The new rule proposals give you an
additional <br>
> 50 grams to work with assuming that the scal! es bein g used are accurate.
I <br>
> suspect most digital scales are closer than 50 grams off at 5000. <br>
> <br>
> If the weight rule were to change it would have to be different rules for
IC <br>
> and electric, otherwise new targets for IC would allow changes in design <br>
> again. I am happy that there is no significant change in size and weight <br>
> even though I am flying electric. Unless you are ready to build/buy the <br>
> next generation of pattern plane work with the rules as we have them. <br>
> <br>
> Stuart Chale <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard <br>
> Strickland <br>
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 12:56 PM <br>
> To: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>' <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] '08 F3A Rule Proposals <br>
> <br>
> It would seem with the state of things as they are, quite a few
compromise! s <br>
& gt; have to be made on the E models compared to IC in the name of weight
savings <br>
> affecting reliability, cost, and safety of airframes. PLUS the fairness <br>
> issue. <br>
> <br>
> RS <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message----- <br>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State> K. <br>
> Rykert <br>
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:58 AM <br>
> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] '08 F3A Rule Proposals <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Do I detect the sound of off tasting grapes.. ;+^ ( tic ) <br>
> <br>
> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State> <br>
> <br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> From: "Richard Strickland" <br>
<RICHARD.S@ALLIED-CALLAWAY.COM>> To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:50 AM
<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] '08 F3A Rule Proposals <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > Of course, j! ust to be fair; the IC airplanes are now weighed with
fuel? <br>
> > Yeah, right..... <br>
> > <br>
> > RS <br>
> > <br>
> > -----Original Message----- <br>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Dean
Pappas <br>
> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:18 AM <br>
> > To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <br>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] '08 F3A Rule Proposals <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > So they listened to my 50 gram scale accuracy argument! <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Dean Pappas <br>
> > Sr. Design Engineer <br>
> > Kodeos Communications <br>
> > 111 Corporate Blvd. <br>
> > <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South Plainfield</st1:City>,
<st1:State w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place>
<br>
> > (908) 222-7817 phone <br>
> > (908) 222-2392 fax <br>
> > d.pappas@kodeos.com <br>
> > <br>
> > -----Original Message----- <br>
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.ns! rca.org <br>
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Earl
Haury <br>
> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 9:52 AM <br>
> > To: Discussion List, NSRCA <br>
> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] '08 F3A Rule Proposals <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Just reviewed the final draft of F3A rules proposals for '08 thru '11
(no <br>
> > sequences yet) and thought I'd share my quick take. They're well done
with <br>
> > some changes (or not) and consideration of a number of technical
issues. <br>
> > Understand that these are unapproved proposals at this point and will
not <br>
> > affect the '07 season. <br>
> > <br>
> > Most significant items are that there will be no weight limit change,
<br>
> > scores <br>
> > will be normalized to the average (with some provisions for exclusion
of <br>
> > zero scores / excessively low scores from the average), take-off /
landing <br>
> > will not be jud! ged / s cored (no more procedure turn after
take-off), <br>
> > sequences will be shorter with an eight minute time limit, wording to
<br>
> > exempt <br>
> > rolling circles from the distance rules - 350 meters allowable. <br>
> > <br>
> > Tech issues include changes to address measuring equipment
variability - <br>
> > sound level (nose into the wind) will be 94.99 dBA max, max weight
will be <br>
> > 5000 grams with a 50 gram allowance (5050 gram fail point), power
battery <br>
> > max volts will be 42.99v in the ready box. <br>
> > <br>
> > There are several items regarding WC procedures including flight
groups <br>
> > for <br>
> > prelims, team championships determined by finishing order (rather
than <br>
> > scores), in the 5-10-5 judge arrangement the end judges will now
judge all <br>
> > turnarounds. <br>
> > <br>
> > Overall a very good effort with input from a broad spectrum of the
world <br>
! > &g t; pattern community. <br>
> > <br>
> > Earl <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>
> ---- <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > _______________________________________________ <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________! <br>
&g t; NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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