<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<title>RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -
verticalsegments</title>
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The figure M is too high in K-factor to be
neglected….I would certainly want to fly it to my advantage….you
guys just keep plugging away, it would have to improve the knowledge base for
rules interpretation. These discussion help me anyway</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keith Black<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 18, 2006
4:49 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Masters 2007 Figure "M"question-verticalsegments</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>For the record I agree with Glen and Don that the 'M'
"should" be flown with both stall turns being the same height (that's
why this caught my attention). </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>When writing my question I initially used the word
"ambiguous", then after thinking about it I realized that the way the
rule is worded it isn't ambiguous, which to me is a problem. The rule states
clearly, "The length of the vertical segments is not a judging
criteria." If this sentence was left out then we'd have no argument and
the general rules would apply, as Glen pointed out. If this text had said,
"the height of the maneuver is not a judging criteria" then there'd
be no argument. However, the description explicitly says that the length of the
vertical segments is not a judging criteria, why state this if they should be
the same? </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Again, I'm not arguing that the 'M' should be flown this
way, but there's no getting around the fact that it is explicitly stated to the
contrary. Shouldn't we consider addressing this in the rules rather than stick
our heads in the sand?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It's funny how some people so quickly lost patience
with me asking this question when the same people in prior discussions have
said we shouldn't make up our own rules but should reference the rule book,
basically go by the letter of the law. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Canopy facing or away... this is clearly objective and
silly, but trying to understand exactly what the text says and if it
should be changed, I think this is reasonable. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you don't have patients to work through this and figure
things out logically then you probably should just delete the message and keep
the rude comments to yourselves. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Keith Black</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:don.ramsey@cox.net" title="don.ramsey@cox.net">Don Ramsey</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday, October
18, 2006 11:12 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question-verticalsegments<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I agree with Glen, the general rules must be followed as well as the
specific. Each maneuver should not require each small detail be
described. Most are already over-defined causing many to not read the
regs. Done properly, the general section should be large and the detail
small. All centered maneuvers are generally symetrical around
center. A top hat at center should have all line
lengths equal. A turnaround top hat may have all line lengths
different for positioning and altitude adjustment. Same for stall turns
at center and turnaround stall turns. All the statement "The length
of the vertical segments is not a judging criteria" means is the
performance of the model in vertical is not a grading criteria. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>In general, centered maneuvers that appear to be symetrical should be
symetrical. Centered maneuvers that appear to begin and end at the same
altitude should, in fact, begin and end at the same altitude. The figure
"M" is a symetrical maneuver around center with first roll
directional optional, stall turn direction optional, inverted through the
bottom half loop, roll direction optional on the second vertical, vertical line
lenght the same as the first vertical, stall turn direction optional, upright
exit with overall height of the maneuver optional and all radii the same.
Much of this is stated in the maneuver description but what is not specificed
is: radii must be the same, rolls must be in the center of the lines, the stall
turn has a maximum pivot radius of 1/2 wingspan, the roll rates are the same,
etc... That's the general section and it applies.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Don</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:gwatson11@houston.rr.com" title="gwatson11@houston.rr.com">Glen
Watson</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday, October
18, 2006 10:14 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -verticalsegments<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Keith,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Here is an interesting</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>passage</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>from
the</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>rule book page 77</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>regarding
lines within a maneuver.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>"All lines within a maneuver have a beginning</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>and
end which define their</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>length.</span></font><b><u><span
style='font-weight:bold'> </span></u></b><b><u><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";font-weight:bold'>The length
of a</span></font> </u></b><b><u><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";font-weight:bold'>line should
only be graded when a maneuver contains</span></font> </u></b><b><u><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
font-weight:bold'>several lines with a given relationship</span></font></u></b><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>,
as in a</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>square loop. Unequal or</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>misrelated
lines should be</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>downgraded according to the
severity of the</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>defect.</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>One
(1) point is subtracted for a reasonable difference.</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>More
points are subtracted for greater differences."</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>My take</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>away</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>is
the</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>maneuver</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>description
implies the vertical line length is</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>not
a judge-able item</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>however</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>since
there are two</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>vertical lines</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>their</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>length</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>must</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>be
of the same reasonable</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>length.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>I for one am beginning to understand the importance of
understanding</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>not just the individual
maneuver description but also the</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>general</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>descriptions
and definitions the rule book provides like</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>the</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>above
example.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Glen</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>-----Original Message-----</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Keith Black</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 AM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>To: NSRCA Mailing List</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure
"M" question - verticalsegments</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Now that we're breaking this down, I'd like some clarification
on the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>section of the rule below that states:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>"The length of the vertical segments is not a judging
criteria."</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>In the strictest translation of this sentence I would say that
this means</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>that the two stall turns do not need to be the same height,
however, this</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>seems inconsistent will all other centered maneuvers where two
halves of an</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>object do have to match in size.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>A looser translation could be that the intention of this
verbiage is to</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>point out that a shorter 'M' should score as well as a taller
'M', but</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>assumes that both sides should be the same height (which isn't
stated</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>anywhere).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Unless otherwise clarified, I'd have to deduce that indeed the
two stall</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>turns don't have to be the same height.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Keith Black</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>From: "Glen Watson" <gwatson11@houston.rr.com></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:10 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure
"M" question</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Below is the Figure M description from page 79-80 of the current
AMA rule</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>book...Note the statement regarding rolls and stall turn
direction are</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>pilot's option...I then found this statement "Edit page
79-80 Figure M with</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>¼ or ½ rolls" to include ¾ roll options" on the NSRCA
page under:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><a href="http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007">http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Figure M with 1/4 or 1/2 Rolls: Model pulls up into one-quarter
(1/4) loop</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>to a vertical track, hesitates then performs prescribed roll,
hesitates then</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>executes a stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>prescribed roll, hesitates then executes one-half (1/2) outside
loop to</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>vertical track, hesitates, performs prescribed roll, hesitates,
executes a</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs prescribed
roll,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>hesitates then recovers with another one-quarter (1/4) loop to
level flight.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Direction of rolls and stall turns are pilot's option. The
length of the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>vertical segments is not a judging criteria.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Downgrades:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>1. Model not vertical at start and finish of rolls</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>and stall turns.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>2. Stall turns not exactly 180 degrees.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>3. Model does not execute prescribed rolls.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>4. Rolls not centered in vertical lines.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>5. Bottom of outside half loop not at same altitude</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>as entry and exit.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Glen</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>-----Original Message-----</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Jerry Budd</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:20 AM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>To: NSRCA Mailing List</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure
"M" question</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Hi Jim,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Unless the maneuver has changed from 15 years ago all the rolls
have</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>to be in the same direction, resulting in one stall turn being</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>canopy-facing you and the other being belly-facing you (your choice</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>as to which comes first). It's a tough maneuver,
especially when the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>wind is blowing other than down the runway.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Jerry</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>Bob</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>> My memory crutch is,when flying from left to right,
the 1st 2 roll</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>directions are left-left and 2nd 2 roll directions are
right-right.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>When flying from the right to left,the 1st 2 roll directions
are</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>right-right</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>and 2nd 2 roll directions are left-left.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>Like Arch said the center half loop is inverted in
both cases.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>Lotsa a upside down.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>Jim Ivey</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>----- Original Message -----</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>From: "Archie Stafford"
<rcpattern@stx.rr.com></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:11 AM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure
"M" question</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> Bob,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> It has to be inverted. The direction of
roll must be the same on every</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>3/4</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> roll therefore you end up inverted across the
middle.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> Arch</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> -----Original Message-----</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Bob Kane</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:53 AM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure
"M" question</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> OK, I'm finally try to fly this thing with a
pencil . . . . . . one</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> question I have (so far) is the 1/2 loop between
the two stall turns in</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> figure M: Does it matter if it is an inside or
outside half loop? The</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> aresti diagram posted on Flying Giants shows it
as an outside half loop</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>with</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> no option. Thanks.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> Bob Kane</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> getterflash@yahoo.com</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> _______________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> _______________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>></span></font><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>_______________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>-- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>___________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Jerry Budd</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Budd Engineering</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>(661) 722-5669 Voice/Fax</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>(661) 435-0358 Cell Phone</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><a href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><a href="http://www.buddengineering.com">http://www.buddengineering.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>_______________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>----</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>> _______________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>_______________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>