<html><body>
<DIV>THE END....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Don Ramsey" <don.ramsey@cox.net> <BR>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>I agree with Glen, the general rules must be followed as well as the specific. Each maneuver should not require each small detail be described. Most are already over-defined causing many to not read the regs. Done properly, the general section should be large and the detail small. All centered maneuvers are generally symetrical around center. A top hat at center should have all line lengths equal. A turnaround top hat may have all line lengths different for positioning and altitude adjustment. Same for stall turns at center and turnaround stall turns. All the statement "The length of the <SPAN lang=en-us>vertical segments is not a judging criteria" means is the performance of the model in vertical is not a grading criteria. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN lang=en-us>In general, centered maneuvers that appear to be symetrical should be symetrical. Centered maneuvers that appear to begin and end at the same altitude should, in fact, begin and end at the same altitude. The figure "M" is a symetrical maneuver around center with first roll directional optional, stall turn direction optional, inverted through the bottom half loop, roll direction optional on the second vertical, vertical line lenght the same as the first vertical, stall turn direction optional, upright exit with overall height of the maneuver optional and all radii the same. Much of this is stated in the maneuver description but what is not specificed is: radii must be the same, rolls must be in the center of the lines, the stall turn has a maximum pivot radius of 1/2 wingspan, the roll rates are the same, etc... That's the general section and it applies.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN lang=en-us>Don</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=gwatson11@houston.rr.com href="mailto:gwatson11@houston.rr.com">Glen Watson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:14 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -verticalsegments</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Keith,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Here is an interesting</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>passage</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>from the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>rule</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2> book page 77</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>regarding lines within a maneuver.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>All lines within a maneuver have a beginning</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>and end which define their</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>length.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The length of a</FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>line should only be graded when a maneuver contains</FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>several lines with a given relationship</FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Couri
er New" size=2>, as in a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>square loop. Unequal or</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>misrelated lines should be</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>downgraded according to the severity of the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>defect.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>One (1) point is subtracted for a reasonable difference.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>More points are subtracted for greater differences.</FO
NT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>My take</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>away</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>is the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>maneuver</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>description implies the vertical line length is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>not a judge-able item</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>however</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>since there are two</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>vertical</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Co
urier New" size=2> lines</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>their</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>length</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>must</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>be of the same reasonable</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>length</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>I for one am beginning to understand the import</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>ance of understanding</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>not just the individual maneuver description but also the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>general</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>descriptions and definition</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>s the rule book provides like</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>above example.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Glen</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Keith Black</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>To: NSRCA Mailing List</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question - verticalsegments</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Now that we're breaking this down, I'd like some clarification on the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>section of the rule below that states:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>"The length of the vertical segments is not a judging criteria."</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>In the strictest translation of this sentence I would say that this means</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>that the two stall turns do not need to be the same height, however, this</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>seems inconsistent will all other centered maneuvers where two halves of an</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>object do have to match in size.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>A looser translation could be that the intention of this verbiage is to</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>point out that a shorter 'M' should score as well as a taller 'M', but</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>assumes that both sides should be the same height (which isn't stated</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>anywhere).</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Unless otherwise clarified, I'd have to deduce that indeed the two stall</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>turns don't have to be the same height.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Keith Black</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>From: "Glen Watson" <gwatson11@houston.rr.com></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:10 PM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Below is the Figure M description from page 79-80 of the current AMA rule</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>book...Note the statement regarding rolls and stall turn direction are</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>pilot's option...I then found this statement "Edit page 79-80 Figure M with</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>¼ or ½ rolls" to include ¾ roll options" on the NSRCA page under:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A href="http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007">http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Figure M with 1/4 or 1/2 Rolls: Model pulls up into one-quarter (1/4) loop</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>to a vertical track, hesitates then performs prescribed roll, hesitates then</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>executes a stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>prescribed roll, hesitates then executes one-half (1/2) outside loop to</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>vertical track, hesitates, performs prescribed roll, hesitates, executes a</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs prescribed roll,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>hesitates then recovers with another one-quarter (1/4) loop to level flight.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Direction of rolls and stall turns are pilot's option. The length of the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>vertical segments is not a judging criteria.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Downgrades:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>1. Model not vertical at start and finish of rolls</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>and stall turns.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>2. Stall turns not exactly 180 degrees.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>3. Model does not execute prescribed rolls.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>4. Rolls not centered in vertical lines.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>5. Bottom of outside half loop not at same altitude</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>as entry and exit.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Glen</FONT></SPAN></P><BR><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>[<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Jerry Budd</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:20 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>To: NSRCA Mailing List</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hi Jim,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Unless the maneuver has changed from 15 years ago all the rolls have</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>to be in the same direction, resulting in one stall turn being</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>canopy-facing you and the other being belly-facing you (your choice</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>as to which comes first). It's a tough maneuver, especially when the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>wind is blowing other than down the runway.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Jerry</FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Bob</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> My memory crutch is,when flying from left to right, the 1st 2 roll</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>directions are left-left and 2nd 2 roll directions are right-right.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>When flying from the right to left,the 1st 2 roll directions are</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>right-right</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>and 2nd 2 roll directions are left-left.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Like Arch said the center half loop is inverted in both cases.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Lotsa a upside down.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Jim Ivey</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>----- Original Message -----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>From: "Archie Stafford" <rcpattern@stx.rr.com></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:11 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> Bob,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> It has to be inverted. The direction of roll must be the same on every</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>3/4</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> roll therefore you end up inverted across the middle.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> Arch</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> -----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Bob Kane</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:53 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> OK, I'm finally try to fly this thing with a pencil . . . . . . one</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> question I have (so far) is the 1/2 loop between the two stall turns in</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> figure M: Does it matter if it is an inside or outside half loop? The</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> aresti diagram posted on Flying Giants shows it as an outside half loop</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>with</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> no option. Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> Bob Kane</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> getterflash@yahoo.com</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> _______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> _______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>-- </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>___________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Jerry Budd</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Budd Engineering</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>(661) 722-5669 Voice/Fax</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>(661) 435-0358 Cell Phone</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A href="http://www.buddengineering.com/">http://www.buddengineering.com</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P><BR><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>----</FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> _______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> <A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
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