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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Congrats Glen.. If only all competitors would
read all of the pertinent rules much of the silliness' could be avoided..
The judging seminars are a great place to clarify in everyone's mind as well as
the list.. But it does boggle my mind when I see such simple confusion on
issues that are addressed in the rule book. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Off my soap box.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
Del <BR> nsrca -
473</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gwatson11@houston.rr.com href="mailto:gwatson11@houston.rr.com">Glen
Watson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:14
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters
2007 Figure "M" question -verticalsegments</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Keith,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Here is an
interesting</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>passage</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>from
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>rule</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>
book page 77</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>regarding lines within a maneuver.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>All
lines within a maneuver have a beginning</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>and end which define their</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>length.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The length of a</FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><B><U><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><B><U> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>line should only be graded
when a maneuver contains</FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><B><U> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>several lines with a given
relationship</FONT></U></B></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>, as in a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>square
loop. Unequal or</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>misrelated lines should be</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>downgraded according to the severity of
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>defect.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>One (1)
point is subtracted for a reasonable difference.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>More points are subtracted for greater
differences.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>My
take</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>away</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>is
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>maneuver</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>description implies the vertical line length is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>not a judge-able item</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>however</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>since there are two</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>vertical</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2> lines</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>their</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>length</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>must</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>be of the same reasonable</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>length</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>I for one am
beginning to understand the import</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>ance of understanding</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>not just the individual maneuver description
but also the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>general</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>descriptions and definition</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2>s the rule book provides like</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us>
<FONT face="Courier New" size=2>above example.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Glen</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Keith Black</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Sent: Wednesday,
October 18, 2006 12:13 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>To: NSRCA Mailing
List</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -
verticalsegments</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Now that we're
breaking this down, I'd like some clarification on the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>section of the
rule below that states:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>"The length of the
vertical segments is not a judging criteria."</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>In the strictest
translation of this sentence I would say that this means</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>that the two stall
turns do not need to be the same height, however, this</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>seems inconsistent
will all other centered maneuvers where two halves of an</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>object do have to
match in size.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>A looser
translation could be that the intention of this verbiage is
to</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>point out that a
shorter 'M' should score as well as a taller 'M', but</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>assumes that both
sides should be the same height (which isn't stated</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>anywhere).</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Unless otherwise
clarified, I'd have to deduce that indeed the two stall</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>turns don't have
to be the same height.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Keith
Black</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>----- Original
Message ----- </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>From: "Glen
Watson" <gwatson11@houston.rr.com></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>To: "'NSRCA
Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Sent: Tuesday,
October 17, 2006 12:10 PM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Below is the
Figure M description from page 79-80 of the current AMA rule</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>book...Note the
statement regarding rolls and stall turn direction are</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>pilot's option...I
then found this statement "Edit page 79-80 Figure M with</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>¼ or ½ rolls" to
include ¾ roll options" on the NSRCA page under:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A
href="http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007">http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Figure M with 1/4
or 1/2 Rolls: Model pulls up into one-quarter (1/4) loop</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>to a vertical
track, hesitates then performs prescribed roll, hesitates
then</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>executes a stall
turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>prescribed roll,
hesitates then executes one-half (1/2) outside loop to</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>vertical track,
hesitates, performs prescribed roll, hesitates, executes a</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>stall turn through
180 degrees, hesitates, performs prescribed roll,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>hesitates then
recovers with another one-quarter (1/4) loop to level
flight.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Direction of rolls
and stall turns are pilot's option. The length of the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>vertical segments
is not a judging criteria.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Downgrades:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>1. Model not
vertical at start and finish of rolls</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>and stall
turns.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>2. Stall turns not
exactly 180 degrees.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>3. Model does not
execute prescribed rolls.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>4. Rolls not
centered in vertical lines.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>5. Bottom of
outside half loop not at same altitude</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>as entry and
exit.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Glen</FONT></SPAN></P><BR><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Jerry Budd</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Sent: Tuesday,
October 17, 2006 11:20 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>To: NSRCA Mailing
List</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hi
Jim,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Unless the
maneuver has changed from 15 years ago all the rolls have</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>to be in the same
direction, resulting in one stall turn being</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>canopy-facing you
and the other being belly-facing you (your choice</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>as to which comes
first). It's a tough maneuver, especially when the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>wind is blowing
other than down the runway.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>Jerry</FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>Bob</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> My
memory crutch is,when flying from left to right, the 1st 2
roll</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>directions are
left-left and 2nd 2 roll directions are right-right.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>When flying
from the right to left,the 1st 2 roll directions are</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>right-right</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>and 2nd 2 roll
directions are left-left.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Like Arch said
the center half loop is inverted in both cases.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Lotsa a upside
down.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Jim
Ivey</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>----- Original
Message -----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>From: "Archie
Stafford" <rcpattern@stx.rr.com></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>To: "'NSRCA
Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Sent: Tuesday,
October 17, 2006 11:11 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
Bob,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> It
has to be inverted. The direction of roll must be the same on
every</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>3/4</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
roll therefore you end up inverted across the middle.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
Arch</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Bob Kane</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:53 AM</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> OK,
I'm finally try to fly this thing with a pencil . . . . . .
one</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
question I have (so far) is the 1/2 loop between the two stall turns
in</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>the</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
figure M: Does it matter if it is an inside or outside half loop?
The</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
aresti diagram posted on Flying Giants shows it as an outside half
loop</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>with</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> no
option. Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> Bob
Kane</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
getterflash@yahoo.com</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>--
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>___________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Jerry
Budd</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Budd
Engineering</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>(661) 722-5669
Voice/Fax</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>(661) 435-0358
Cell Phone</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A
href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com">mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A
href="http://www.buddengineering.com">http://www.buddengineering.com</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P><BR><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>----</FONT></SPAN></P><BR>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>
_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>> <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>_______________________________________________</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us></SPAN></P>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>