<html><body>
<DIV>The aresti is only an example of the maneuver. The aresti is not the only representation/style which can earn a 10.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For example(s)</DIV>
<DIV>- the ratio of the lengths of the hesitations and the rolling portions of a 4 point roll drawn in aresti (we are really talking about the ribbon diagrams) could be measured and the arguement could be made that any 4 point roll which did not match the ratio of the aresti is downgradeable.</DIV>
<DIV>- the ratio of height of a corner portion of a square loop could be calculated vs the actual straight line length (again from the aresti/ribbon drawing) and the arguement could be made that any square loop without a matching ratio could be downgraded.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Both arguements would be wrong. The aresti/ribbon is an example, an illustration, and it should be technically accurate - but it is not the the only way a maneuver can be completed without technical downgrades.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <jivey61@bellsouth.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm with you,not trying to start something. This just needs to be hashed out before we stand in front of the judges. I have done the fig M all different ways also and they are good to watch when done right.The rules were just presented here and there is no mention of roll directions....so how much attention do we give the aresti figures.They defined that both verticals had the same roll directions..didn't say which way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Ivey</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:27 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Not to start anything here, but why is it better to present the canopy to the judges? How many points should that count for? If the rules say "pilot's option" then there can be no downgrade if presenting the bottom to the judges. Or maybe this falls under the S&G discussion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>IMHO, the M w/ 3/4 is a beautiful manuever when done right, and I think it shows more skill to present the bottom on one of the stall turns. That is how I did it 13 years ago.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>"george w. kennie" <geobet@gis.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>Jim,<BR>It certainly will work this way, but your original method will present <BR>better. With the roll direction being pilots option your original <BR>ll/rr-rr/ll is a much prettier maneuver. There's something to be said for <BR>presenting the canopy to the judges on rolling maneuvers. I apply this <BR>technique on all maneuvers with rolling elements unless the specified <BR>requirement forces otherwise, like reverse K.E.'s. IMHO, you had it right <BR>the first time!<BR>G.<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:17 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question<BR><BR><BR>> Bob<BR>> If I read the Aresti correct the rolls on both vertical lines are the same<BR>> direction.This makes it lt-lt and lt-lt coming f
rom the left and rt-rt and<BR>> rt-rt coming from the right.Like Jerry said look at top of plane one time<BR>> and bottom of the plane next time.<BR>><BR>> Jim Ivey<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bob Kane" <GETTERFLASH@YAHOO.COM><BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:01 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question<BR>><BR>><BR>>> Wow, this is more complicated than I anticipated. Do you have to roll the<BR>> same way for each stall turn? Or can you reverse directions to show the<BR>> canopy during each stall?<BR>>><BR>>> For example, flying left to right as shown on the aresti, pull 1/4 loop,<BR>> short line, roll 3/4 left (canopy toward flightline), short line, stall<BR>> toward the right, short line, roll 3/4 left, short line, push 1/2 outside<BR>> loop, short line, roll 3/4 right (canopy faces flight line),
short line,<BR>> stall towerd the right, short line, 3/4 roll right, short line, pull 1/4<BR>> loop.<BR>>><BR>>> Bob Kane<BR>>> getterflash@yahoo.com<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message ----<BR>>> From: "jivey61@bellsouth.net" <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:45:56 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Jerry<BR>>> I looked again at the aresti and I think you are right.The aresti shows<BR>>> both upline rolls in the same direction.That would let you see the top <BR>>> one<BR>>> time and bottom the other time.<BR>>> My mistake Bob so much for crutches.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>> NSRCA-discussion@li
sts.nsrca.org<BR>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>> <BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>