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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why not let give the judges the ability to call
avoidance. Pilot option to listen or not. May not catch all, but
can't be worse then letting a pilot who's focused on what hes doing to see it
and react.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=lightfoot@sc.rr.com href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">Jay
Marshall</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:12
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Avoidance</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It probably wouldn’t
do to allow the pilot call out “Avoidance” - too much of a chance or using it
to bail out of a bad maneuver. It could be set up, however, for the caller to
call it <SPAN class=GramE>out ?</SPAN> They also probably have a better vision
of the total sky.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>ronlock@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:57
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List;
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Avoidance</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I think Ed has provided a good review of
the situation-<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">And reluctantly agree, there is too much
devil in the details to create a<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">set of criteria that judges could
apply with consistency.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Ron
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>From: "Ed Alt" <ed_alt@hotmail.com> <BR><BR>> I
think the problem here is that receiving approval for interrupting a
<BR>> flight for near collisions would be based on 90% guesswork. If the
judges <BR>> are really watching what they are supposed to be watching,
they are not in a <BR>> very good position to objectively determine if a
collision was really <BR>> imminent. For that matter, even the pilot
isn't in a good position to do <BR>> this most of the time. Some callers
can probably handle this chore, others <BR>> may not be able to. Do you
want to have a situation where the caller blows <BR>> it for you through
a well intentioned, but totally inaccurate "avoidance" <BR>> call that
the judges can disagree with? Do the judges base things on what <BR>>
they hear and from who they hear it, do they base i! t on wh at they see
(like <BR>> an obvious ditch from the flight path) or is it a combination
of both? The <BR>> rules don't say a thing about this, so it opens up
more issues. <BR>> <BR>> I think that it all happens too fast most of
the time, except when two <BR>> models get in synch in the same general
direction and eventually try to <BR>> mate. You might find that it's a
dispute that the CD can't easily settle, <BR>> because he/she probably
wasn't watching and the judges probably didn't see <BR>> it well enough
to decide properly in many cases. If there was going to be a <BR>> real,
purposeful avoidance rule for Pattern, I think it would have to be <BR>>
more explicitely stated to require the discretion of the pilot or suggestion
<BR>> by the caller to be the expresed verbally and for that matter,
allow the <BR>> pilot to declare whether or not they are actually
following the callers <BR>> suggestion or just plowing ahead. You could
perhaps ! allow t he judges to <BR>> perform a smell test if they really
thought it was bogus, but just as you <BR>> shouldn't downgrade for
errors you didn't see, you probably shouldn't <BR>> question the pilot
discretion on avoidance calls, if they are made a formal <BR>> rule.
<BR>> <BR>> All-in-all, I think it's probably not a real effective
rule to adopt. I'm <BR>> not sure that following the "If it saves just
ONE airplane, it's worth it" <BR>> line of thinking is good for
competition. Maybe it is better left to CD's <BR>> as to whether they
want to make this a standard practice at their contests. <BR>> That would
be my suggestion anyway - if the locals think this is the way to <BR>> go
and can encourage CD's to make it standard practic through a rules waiver
<BR>> for the sanctioned event, then go for it. <BR>> <BR>> Ed
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> >From: Jeff Hill
<BR><JH102649@SPEAKEASY.NET>> >Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR><NSRCA-DISCUSS! TS.NSRCA.ORG ION@LIS>> >To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR><NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion]
Avoidance <BR>> >Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:11:32 -0600 <BR>> >
<BR>> >All - <BR>> > <BR>> >Below is the rule from the AMA
2005 Competition Rulebook. IMHO it requires <BR>> >you to interrupt
the maneuver and not fly any subsequent <BR>> >maneuvers--otherwise
they are scored. In this case it appears the CD would <BR>> >have to
make a ruling. In actual practice the CD would probably rely on <BR>>
>the judges' opinions for guidance. This would most likely mean that you
<BR>> >would have to bail and land and wait for the CD to rule. If you
bailed and <BR>> >your request was denied then you cannot complete the
flight; whereas if <BR>> >you ruin one maneuver and complete the
flight the rest of the flight is <BR>> >scored but you lose your right
to appeal. <BR>> > <BR>> >In! 2007 a new rule, 6.8, might also
be used as grounds for a reflight. <BR>> > <BR>> >Both rules are
printed below. <BR>> > <BR>> >Jeff Hill <BR>> > <BR>>
>10.2. Each competitor is entitled to one (1) <BR>> >attempt for
each official flight. An attempt may be <BR>> >repeated at the judges’
discretion only if, for some <BR>> >unforeseen reason, the model fails
to make a start <BR>> >(i.e., safety delay due to other aircraft
traffic, etc.). <BR>> >Similarly, an attempt may be repeated at the
discretion <BR>> >of the Contest Director if it has been interrupted
<BR>> >due to a circumstance beyond the control of the competitor,
<BR>> >but only the maneuver affected and the <BR>> >unscored
maneuvers that follow will be scored. The <BR>> >Contest Director
shall have sole discretionary authority <BR>> >to grant a single
repeat attempt, if, in his/her opinion, <BR>> >the competitor has !
encount ered radio interference <BR>> >during the course of an
official attempt. <BR>> >• 10.3. In the case of a collision during a
<BR>> >Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately <BR>>
>recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights <BR>> >with
the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be <BR>> >airworthy or
with a backup or repaired aircraft. They <BR>> >will begin with the
maneuver that was in progress or <BR>> >with the next scheduled
maneuver if the collision <BR>> >occurred between maneuvers. The
previously <BR>> >defined starting times will apply for a resumed
flight <BR>> >and the contestant will be allowed no more than two
<BR>> >(2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of <BR>>
>trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers <BR>> >will
be added to the scores of subsequent <BR>> >maneuvers in the resumed
flight. The flight must be <BR>> >compl! eted by the end of the round
being flown, or <BR>> >within a time frame designated by the CD.
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >6.8 The contestant may ask the CD
for a flight delay or reflight due to <BR>> >unsafe conditions; if the
judges concur the delay or reflight must be <BR>> >granted. However,
the contestant’s won aircraft cannot be the cause of <BR>> >the unsafe
condition. A contestant’s own aircraft can only have an <BR>>
>equipment malfunction. A flight delay or reflight shall not be granted
<BR>> >for equipment malfunctions at 4A and 5A contests. The CD may
make <BR>> >exceptions at other contests. <BR>> > <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> >_______________________________________________
<BR>> >NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>>
>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>>
>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>>
<BR>> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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